Lower, middle, upper?

HiTempguy wrote: You are telling me that there are places in the US where $100k per year doesn't buy you a nice life? BullE36 M3.

I made $90k 10 years ago living in San Francisco. I felt pretty poor. Housing costs are outrageous. When half your income goes to housing, the other half goes to property tax and you have to live on the third half, it gets pretty tight. That's really the only reason I left.

fast_eddie_72 wrote: I made $90k 10 years ago living in San Francisco. I felt pretty poor. Housing costs are outrageous. When half your income goes to housing, the other half goes to property tax and you have to live on the third half, it gets pretty tight. That's really the only reason I left.

Seriously, someone explain this to me. Highlight the general "area" you live in. The general "area" where you work. And why it is necessary to feel poor earning over $100k per year (in SD). I am genuinely curious, because I can not fathom earning $100k+ per year and not being able to make a decent, manageable living situation. Even in a city like Toronto or Vancouver (essentially Canada's most expensive real estate markets) $100k+ per year will let you live comfortably.

http://www.trulia.com/home_prices/California/San_Diego-heat_map/

http://www.trulia.com/real_estate/San_Diego-California/market-trends/

Edit- Now, laugh all you want, but this is what I am dealing with:

Where I currently work, in 2005 my wage would probably have been 20% less than it currently is in 2012 (inflation adjusted). Housing has DOUBLED since then. Laugh all you want, but I feel a lot more hard done by at my wage (well under $70k gross per year) and my housing situation then yours. And I'm solidly middle class and will eventually be upper middle class.

In reply to HiTempguy:

Well, I was in San Francisco, not San Diego, so I can only speak to that. But, seriously, almost half your money is gone in taxes before you see a dime. So $100k turns into $50k pretty quick. Then, take a look at rent:

http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sfc/apa/

$2,500 a month eats $30k. It's a random figure, you can get something cheaper, but we're talking about living "decent" life. Honestly, our flat in North Beach was a cool, historic building and a great location, but kind of a dump, and really small.

I'm not saying you can't live. We got by, started a family and were't starving or anything. Even paid down some bills and saved to buy a house. But we didn't eat out, had cheap food and pinched a lot of pennies. Not what I had pictured when I moved there from Memphis TN.

Ironically, when I got the job I said exactly what you're saying when people tried to caution me about the cost of living. "I bet I'll figure out a way to scrape by" I'd say. Well I did a little better than scrape by, but it's nice to be out of the insanity of it all.

I'm from Sacramento, not S.F. or S.D. I'm sure housing prices here are more expensive than other parts of the country, but not as absurd as people are talking about them being in those places. Housing prices there are crazy.

An average family home in Sac is probably around $300k-$400k if you spend some time hunting. When you're talking $800k+, you're looking at something really nice and/or in one of the nicest areas.

In reply to fast_eddie_72:

Your example only highlights the point a bunch of other people are making. Your choice to live in a very high cost area doesn't mean your income is only moderate.

I live in the Bay Area and work in downtown SF. It would be great to enjoy the lifestyle that living in SF provides, but on an average salary it makes more sense to live in a medium income area and commute.

Just because people in the top 20% make life style choices that leave them with little additional income after their expenses, they aren't middle class. Just because all the people you socialize live a life style similar to yours, doesn't make you middle class.

^Exactly!

Otto Maddox wrote: US Census 2005 Lowest fifth $0 - $18,500 Second fifth $18-500 - $34,738 Middle fifth $34,738 - $55,331 Fourth fifth $55,331 - $88,030 Highest fifth $88,030 -

Interesting, I'm assuming that's gross household income?

So middle class maybe the upper-middle 40% with lower/upper splitting the remaning 60%, with upper the top 20%?

Hungary Bill wrote: If your name is on your shirt you're lower class. If your name is on your desk you're middle class. if your name is on your building you're upper class.

So if your name isn't in any of those places, that means you have no class?

fromeast2west wrote: In reply to fast_eddie_72: Your example only highlights the point a bunch of other people are making. Your choice to live in a very high cost area doesn't mean your income is only moderate. I live in the Bay Area and work in downtown SF. It would be great to enjoy the lifestyle that living in SF provides, but on an average salary it makes more sense to live in a medium income area and commute. Just because people in the top 20% make life style choices that leave them with little additional income after their expenses, they aren't middle class. Just because all the people you socialize live a life style similar to yours, doesn't make you middle class.

Well, yes, to a degree. I went there because it was a good opportunity. And it worked out well for me while I was young. After doing all I could with the opportunity I was given, I was able to move to a place that's still pretty awesome but much less expensive. I wouldn't have been in a position to do that if I hadn't gone to San Francisco.

I work in local television- SF is the fifth largest local market in the country. Right or wrong, that experience opens doors. But, yeah, while I was there it was a decision to be there, and it was a decision to leave. I woudn't say otherwise. I was just responding to the question "how can you feel poor making $100k". I wasn't whining about it. I loved the experience there and wouldn't change a thing.

I did, after living in North Beach for a few years, buy a house in the East Bay. This was before the tech bust, so there were even more people there than there are now. I lived 13 miles from work and it took about an hour and a half each way. After five years of that I decided that was no way to live and took an opportunity in Denver.

mguar wrote: Income is generally considered to be post taxes not pre- taxes.. (since that's the part of your income you cannot spend)..

To whom? Seriously - where do you ever discuss your actual net aside from arguing with your spouse or your divorce attorney? Not at the bank, not at the tax office, nowhere. You are your gross. Your net is between you and the government and even they know you are probably lying.

as someone who just went through bankruptcy ill say this. i lost my job and realized i couldnt work that much anymore. thus went from around 100k to 30k took 2,5 years but eventually savings dwindled and we just couldnt pay on our mortgage anymore and couldnt get the bank to accept a short sale offer on the house since the house has lost over 30 percent of its value. did we over spend before. nope. used to be one of my bimonthly paychecks could pay all our bills. my othercheck was for us to have fun with and hers was for savings.