miter saws

I have a small craftsman non sliding saw that I've done all the trim and building on my house with. I drag it out when I need it and put it away when I dont. I can count on one hand the number of cuts that it couldn't handle over the years and those were all simple to do with a circular saw. I've appreciated it being light and easy to pack away much more than I've been bothered by those few cuts. 

If I did big timbers or built complex decks regularly or had a repetitive task that required the depth of a slider then I'd get one, but as a normal homeowner, I'd rather have a small saw. 

When I first saw the title my thought went to my miter box and hand saw which I have hidden away some where down cellar.

SVreX said:

In reply to frenchyd :

Honestly, timber work is the last time I want a compound miter. The pieces are so heavy that just putting them on the table can knock the miter/bevel askew, and a wasted timber can cost hundreds of dollars. 

I said I use a circular saw, but I didn't say I use a 7 1/4" circular saw.  I have a 16" circular saw. I cut timbers directly on the pile and never move them to the saw bench. 

For complicated compound timber cuts, I use a chainsaw. I know that sounds crude, but I am VERY good with one. Sharp chain, tune it well, read the grain, do the math, and follow the layout lines. 

Several times I've found myself 40' in the air on a scaffold cutting a mortise and tenons into curved decorative members in a gable with a chainsaw.  It's easier for me to do the cutting in the air then walk timbers back and forth to a saw bench. 

But there is no right or wrong. Use the tool that works for you. 

I just can't afford to spend 30,000 hours on a house. 

No pro ever could spend that much time building one house,  which is part of the reason I did this. All though one house near here had 8 finish carpenters working almost a whole year finishing the inside but  they probably kept  Ekenboll busy for a year. His budget just for the house was 22 million and I heard he went over that. 

 Nothing against pro’s.  You guys work hard and some work very smart.  I just wanted to do something out of the ordinary. Something that  challenged me.  30,000 hours and counting, hopefully I get it finished at least the day before they dig my grave. 

A bit of my thunder is lessened when that  Hundegger came out and could do so much of the work.  But I have yet to hear of another double timber frame. 

I do happen to agree with you that there doesn’t seem to be only one right way to do a lot of things.  For example I got building permits with nothing more than dimensional drawings on a couple of sheets of lined paper.  Details were only in my head, or I figured them out as I went.  

Oh and yes I too had a 16 inch Mikita circular saw to work the Timbers but I also cut my mortise pockets with a chain Morticer  also by Mikita. Heck a lot of my timberframing tools came from Mikita. Via Timberwolf  (I wish I could have afforded the Mafell ones though) 

As far as walking Timbers? Too heavy!!!  I used rolling conveyers, rollers, furniture dolly's, forklifts, cranes, and  telehandlers. 

iceracer said:

When I first saw the title my thought went to my miter box and hand saw which I have hidden away some where down cellar.

We’ve all had one of those.  Once you use a good compound bevel saw you’ll be surprised at out nice and quickly you can do that sort of work with how little skill. 

I know skilled craftsmen who do beautiful work with nothing more than that. But to be fair most Newbies do a poor job.   

If you want super accurate cuts (like for paint-grade trim work, or building picture frames), then a non-sliding miter saw has generally less slop. If you want to do really big boards, then you'll have to go with a slider, but then you either sacrifice a little tolerance or you pay lots of money and weight. If you need the extra reach but want good stiffness, the bosch glide saws are nice.

The blade shadow system on the dewalt saws is nicer to use than a laser.

Don't share blades between your table saw, and your miter or radial arm saws. Table saws need a positive hooked blade to pull the work material down into the table top and keep work safe. Miter saws and radial arm saws need a negative hooked blade to push the work material down into the table top and keep work safe. DON'T SHARE BLADES between the two types unless you want kickback and injuries.

the_machina said:

If you want super accurate cuts (like for paint-grade trim work, or building picture frames), then a non-sliding miter saw has generally less slop. If you want to do really big boards, then you'll have to go with a slider, but then you either sacrifice a little tolerance or you pay lots of money and weight. If you need the extra reach but want good stiffness, the bosch glide saws are nice.

The blade shadow system on the dewalt saws is nicer to use than a laser.

Don't share blades between your table saw, and your miter or radial arm saws. Table saws need a positive hooked blade to pull the work material down into the table top and keep work safe. Miter saws and radial arm saws need a negative hooked blade to push the work material down into the table top and keep work safe. DON'T SHARE BLADES between the two types unless you want kickback and injuries.

 

Thanks I didn’t know that. ( about not sharing blades). In about 19 years nobody ever mentioned that including the place that does the sharpening and sold me several blades.   My subscription to Fine Home Building didn’t talk about that either  but it’s been more than a decade since I got my last copy. 

Most table saws are 10 inches and not 12 inches so it’s understandable that it’s never come up.  I’ll go through and sort them out.  

As far as accuracy you should see my home. There the joints are so tight that you can’t get light to pass through.  And I always checked with a Bosch digital angle finder since that’s the only thing I could find that measured to a tenth of a degree.  

I have heard from several sources that a slider isn’t super accurate.  Maybe because of abuse or damage?  Or dull blades?  Maybe rushing a cut in a big timber with a single pass?   

Whatever,  My DeWalt  is and has been exactly right on.  To the tenth of a degree  

I bought a huge Rigid 12" sliding dual bevel miter. I got it used, so it was cheaper. 

In hindsight, I think there are some things that would work better for me, not in the least due to the lack of space I've got, and a 12" slider is huge. 

I like Porter Cable's new folding 10" miter (not a slider) because it can be stored relatively compact. It doesn't get great reviews for reliablity though. Festool makes some good compact tools, but even their Kapex is a bit big (and $1400). 

In reply to frenchyd :

Every vendor who sells blades tells you. 

They don’t use the word “kickback”, they use the words “rip” and “crosscut”. It’s printed in the packages. 

I bought the canoe stand about 16 years ago and have used it extensively. 

As said earlier it's great to be able to work outside. My regular canoe is fixed on a workbench and only has the capacity to paddle 4ft on the short side so the portable is great. It's at my son's house right now so another benefit. 

In reply to tahomatr :

that was a clever canoe

Sliders have more slop than non, but they are much better than they were 10 years ago.  It's a non issue if you have good technique.

Stick with 10" over 12" if you can as the 12" blade will deflect more, particularly when shaving off a hair on an overlong board.

I prefer Makita's  (Also, hate belt drive saws)

A high quality blade is almost more important than the saw.

Fox

CV - 30 years as a professional builder/cabinetmaker.

Foxworx said:

Sliders have more slop than non, but they are much better than they were 10 years ago.  It's a non issue if you have good technique.

Stick with 10" over 12" if you can as the 12" blade will deflect more, particularly when shaving off a hair on an overlong board.

I prefer Makita's  (Also, hate belt drive saws)

A high quality blade is almost more important than the saw.

 

Fox

 

CV - 30 years as a professional builder/cabinetmaker.

 

 

This. ALL of it. I have a dinosaur of a Makita that just keeps going. Parts are still easy to find. I’ve had people scoff at me for not using a $10k+ pneumatic double blade, but I can control my speed with the makita, AND cut wider/deeper frames.

I just purchased an 80T carbide-tipped blade from Quinn in St Louis and am very pleased with the quality. FS tool makes a good one, too. Ultramitre used to be the E36 M3, but their customer service has gone south.

Also, I clean my blades pretty frequently with a copper wire brush.

(Custom Picture Framer for 20+ years.)

Follow up:

Recently sold my behemoth of a 12" sliding dual bevel miter Rigid for $150. Bought if for close to $300 used, but it moved quick. 

Took that $150 and bought a Craftsman 10" folding miter with single bevel for $150. 

It's so nice having a saw that's both compact and easy to hide away but still gets projects done. 

NOT A TA said:

RevRico said:

In reply to NOT A TA :

From what I've seen, the newer harbor freight ones are better and cheaper than my old dewalt.

Maybe look on craigslist for a radial arm saw? Does everything a sliding miter saw does with a slightly larger footprint. 

I agree and if I were younger with 30 years to use it or thought I'd use it more in the near future I'd buy higher quality.  Grew up working doing new home construction in the 70's using a big radial arm. I bought this thing just to renovate the exterior of my house and install interior trim, then I'll probably sell it for $50.00 so I don't have to store it. Should I occasionally need one, I can borrow a buds but since I've gotta do the whole outside and then trim the inside I can't borrow one that long.

Bought a 20" chain saw last year and took down all the big trees in my yard over winter while it was cooler (S FL), now gonna sell it for half of new.  Just don't want to store stuff like that. With no basements and short attics storage space is at a premium. Most people rent storage facility space but they spend more on storage over time than the crap they store is worth.

There is that approach and maybe in your situation it’s the best one. 

I know when it come to tools and equipment  I hang onto them like they are gold. I buy quality stuff usually and I’m using tools I bought as a teenager ( I’m 71 now)  maybe not every day but  often enough so they retain value.    

When really bad times happen it’s nice to have something of value to sell.  Tools I paid $100 15-20 years ago today actually sell quickly for more than I paid for them.  That’s because inflation matches on and a good tool that used to cost $100 now sells for $300 or more.   

frenchyd said:

NOT A TA said:

RevRico said:

In reply to NOT A TA :

From what I've seen, the newer harbor freight ones are better and cheaper than my old dewalt.

Maybe look on craigslist for a radial arm saw? Does everything a sliding miter saw does with a slightly larger footprint. 

I agree and if I were younger with 30 years to use it or thought I'd use it more in the near future I'd buy higher quality.  Grew up working doing new home construction in the 70's using a big radial arm. I bought this thing just to renovate the exterior of my house and install interior trim, then I'll probably sell it for $50.00 so I don't have to store it. Should I occasionally need one, I can borrow a buds but since I've gotta do the whole outside and then trim the inside I can't borrow one that long.

Bought a 20" chain saw last year and took down all the big trees in my yard over winter while it was cooler (S FL), now gonna sell it for half of new.  Just don't want to store stuff like that. With no basements and short attics storage space is at a premium. Most people rent storage facility space but they spend more on storage over time than the crap they store is worth.

There is that approach and maybe in your situation it’s the best one. 

 

It is.

So what saw did Tuna ever buy?  

In reply to spitfirebill :

A small sliding double miter Makita. I don't have a link... wait.

I found it. https://www.homedepot.com/p/Makita-10-5-Amp-8-1-2-in-Corded-Single-Bevel-Sliding-Compound-Miter-Saw-w-Electric-Brake-Soft-Start-LED-Light-and-48T-Blade-LS0815F/205208068?cm_mmc=hd_email-_-Confirmation_STH_BOSS-_-20180613_PP_ET_Merch_Confirmation_STH_BOSS_3136866-_-product_desc__W832085412

It was $330 when I bought it. It worked well. It was very accurate and I bought a better blade for finish stuff. It worked great for the floor, the trim, and a bunch of other stuff I did since then. Sorry I didn't get back to you, the meaningless arguing here made me just abandon the thread.

I bought a 10" sliding compound Makita in 97 and its still in good shape today.  Dropped it a few times, oak flooring, etc and even ran trim in million dollar houses for 4 years.