(I think this or a similar property was actually listed a few months ago, so I suspect that it can be had for less than asking price).
google earth suggest 2 tracks or a dirt style rallycross course already in place
(I think this or a similar property was actually listed a few months ago, so I suspect that it can be had for less than asking price).
google earth suggest 2 tracks or a dirt style rallycross course already in place
Everyone start playing the lottery. Now!
Appleseed wrote: Everyone start playing the lottery. Now!
there'd be a hell of a house warming/ open house if it were to occur.
sweet. In.
I've often wondered how the country club model works with racetracks. A golf course is not exactly cheap to own/operate, but many clubs are perfectly successful with only 150-200 members.
I think there are a few racetracks that use the country club model, but I'd be interested to learn more about the business.
I imagine:
Revenue from:
Who's with me?
FWIW, in the Chicago area (which I believe to be more expensive than other areas in the country for this) your average, completely private golf-centric country club costs about $25,000 a year in dues/fees/required spending.
This does not include special assessments, and it does not include the membership fee, which is usually between $45,000 and $100,000, and is often at least 50%-75% equitable, meaning you can sell the membership to someone else.
I'm in for $100. Just all I have at the moment
Already had a long-running thread on this, updated recently:
https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/grm/private-race-track-in-south-central-fla/78016/page3/
mtn wrote: FWIW, in the Chicago area (which I believe to be more expensive than other areas in the country for this) your average, completely private golf-centric country club costs about $25,000 a year in dues/fees/required spending. This does not include special assessments, and it does not include the membership fee, which is usually between $45,000 and $100,000, and is often at least 50%-75% equitable, meaning you can sell the membership to someone else.
That is actually quite useful. Thanks!
GameboyRMH wrote: Already had a long-running thread on this, updated recently: https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/grm/private-race-track-in-south-central-fla/78016/page3/
The area27 mentioned in that thread has a membership page up:
Regular membership details- LIMITED AVAILABILITY
One time joining fee of $45,000 Yearly membership dues; Phase 1 $3,000 Phase 2 with clubhouse $4,000 15 or more full circuit track days per month, with at least two weekends per month Membership includes immediate family including members between the ages 16 to 27 Karting membership available for all family members age 8 and up After a period of five (5) years membership becomes transferable subject to SOMC management approval and a $1,000 administration fee Regular members can bring up to 15 guests per month, 3 guests per Regular Membership may drive 1 time per year, providing all driver eligibility requirements are met. Guests who will be driving on the track will pay a daily use fee of $100
So, it is in line with golf courses.
I actually think there's a more cost effective way to run it than to charge country club type dues and initiations. Still charge a membership and for track time, but require that tires used on track be purchased from a distributor that is located on sight and has facilities to service racers and drivers there. The distributor will pay to be the exclusive tire supplier as they have a captive audience of sorts, and in turn will be able to import larger lots of tires as needed at a lower distribution cost as they effectively have solid projections on sales numbers and figures. The key is getting a distibutor in place that would carry a range of manufacturers, Ideally you'd want Purple crack, Toyo, BFG, Michelin and Pirelli. No supplier currently carries that range, Phil's comes close though.
I find it hard to believe that 400 acres in Clewiston FL is worth $10 million, regardless of what's on it. I used to have clients down that way, and it is the middle of nowhere.
captdownshift wrote: I actually think there's a more cost effective way to run it than to charge country club type dues and initiations. Still charge a membership and for track time, but require that tires used on track be purchased from a distributor that is located on sight and has facilities to service racers and drivers there. The distributor will pay to be the exclusive tire supplier as they have a captive audience of sorts, and in turn will be able to import larger lots of tires as needed at a lower distribution cost as they effectively have solid projections on sales numbers and figures. The key is getting a distibutor in place that would carry a range of manufacturers, Ideally you'd want Purple crack, Toyo, BFG, Michelin and Pirelli. No supplier currently carries that range, Phil's comes close though.
How do you enforce that? And isn't that quite limiting? If I were required to buy golf balls from the course I was playing at, i wouldn't play there.
mtn wrote:captdownshift wrote: I actually think there's a more cost effective way to run it than to charge country club type dues and initiations. Still charge a membership and for track time, but require that tires used on track be purchased from a distributor that is located on sight and has facilities to service racers and drivers there. The distributor will pay to be the exclusive tire supplier as they have a captive audience of sorts, and in turn will be able to import larger lots of tires as needed at a lower distribution cost as they effectively have solid projections on sales numbers and figures. The key is getting a distibutor in place that would carry a range of manufacturers, Ideally you'd want Purple crack, Toyo, BFG, Michelin and Pirelli. No supplier currently carries that range, Phil's comes close though.How do you enforce that? And isn't that quite limiting? If I were required to buy golf balls from the course I was playing at, i wouldn't play there.
I think this property is suffering from a crackpipe price and it's affecting their usage pricing which is affecting our ideas of reasonable alternatives. You don't need country club fees or tire limitations...you just need this property to be sold at a reasonable price rather than one that's kept it waiting for a buyer for however many years (would have to know the age of the old magazine dyintorace first saw it in before he posted about it in 2014).
In reply to mtn:
Stamping or branding on the tires by the supplier as is done to enforce for contingency purposes. If the pricing is in line with other providers, service is decent (as it should be as it's a static location for the track support crew as opposed to loading a hauler each week) then the tire supplier should actually have lower logistic and staffing cost and be better able to predicatively order tires in volume that will be needed resulting in a lower cost per a unit to them. The biggest key would be product range carried, if I wanted to run X brand and they didn't carry it, then I'd have an issue, otherwise I wouldn't as long as pricing was in line. Heck all but 3 classes I've run in have required a specific tire to run, and of those 3 if you weren't on purple crack you weren't see the podium.
mtn wrote:captdownshift wrote: I actually think there's a more cost effective way to run it than to charge country club type dues and initiations. Still charge a membership and for track time, but require that tires used on track be purchased from a distributor that is located on sight and has facilities to service racers and drivers there. The distributor will pay to be the exclusive tire supplier as they have a captive audience of sorts, and in turn will be able to import larger lots of tires as needed at a lower distribution cost as they effectively have solid projections on sales numbers and figures. The key is getting a distibutor in place that would carry a range of manufacturers, Ideally you'd want Purple crack, Toyo, BFG, Michelin and Pirelli. No supplier currently carries that range, Phil's comes close though.How do you enforce that? And isn't that quite limiting? If I were required to buy golf balls from the course I was playing at, i wouldn't play there.
I actually think that if you provided tire services on site, they would almost all buy from you without any limitations. It would just be so convenient. You could even re-sell the takeoffs and "split" the revenue with the members who buy new tires once a month. Kinda like exactly how country clubs sell thousands of golf balls at 3x the online golf ball price.
It would have to fit in with the concierge car storing service. You come off track, park in the pit and get out. Club staff takes your car and stores it with a post-race inspection. You get an email with the results of the inspection, and they count your engine hours/ tire heat cycles for you. Tires are wearing out or cycling out? We will replace them and have the car ready for your next outing for $x. Needs an oil change? done. Tie rods getting sloppy? easy. All would be seamless for the client. Techs could even quickly consult you about the car setup and make your requested tweaks while you are away. Take all the non-racing out of racing for the folks who don't want to do it themselves.
I do agree though that the large one-time fee isn't perfect. I would rather have larger annual and incremental fees than a big one-size-fits-all membership charge.
In reply to GameboyRMH:
my musings are more general and not directly tied to the property linked in this thread.
If I were a private equity guy, and I had the money, I'd be asking for 8% minimum on that sort of investment. If you think you can come up with a viable business model that lets you operate the tracks, pay yourself, and still have $800k a year a year left over, I'm all ears.
Robbie wrote: It would have to fit in with the concierge car storing service. You come off track, park in the pit and get out. Club staff takes your car and stores it with a post-race inspection. You get an email with the results of the inspection, and they count your engine hours/ tire heat cycles for you. Tires are wearing out or cycling out? We will replace them and have the car ready for your next outing for $x. Needs an oil change? done. Tie rods getting sloppy? easy. All would be seamless for the client. Techs could even quickly consult you about the car setup and make your requested tweaks while you are away. Take all the non-racing out of racing for the folks who don't want to do it themselves.
A local track does this, but by the looks of things almost all of their customers take part in a spec race series...in large part the Radical series which is for the money's-no-object crowd.
In reply to GameboyRMH:
As long as one set of tires doesn't count against the $2017 we're okay without being Radical series drivers.
In reply to mazdeuce:
importing via the airstrip may come into play...
GameboyRMH wrote: For the money's-no-object crowd.
Yes, yes. The "I paid $50k plus 20k/year for the priveledge of playing golf 30-40 times a year. It's only $1000 per round!" crowd is exactly who we would be going for.
In reply to Robbie:
You know about Autobahn in Joliet right? That's a Country Club Race Track. Been there a few times, really nice place.
In reply to SyntheticBlinkerFluid:
Yes, but I don't know about its membership options/rates. Honestly I thought it was more of a track that called itself a country club because you can buy a garage on-site.
Looking at the website, it seems it is more in-line with what I am thinking, but I still can't find any info on membership.
Robbie wrote: can't find any info on membership.
http://autobahntestdrive.com/membership-types-benefits-2/
Country Club Member
Initiation Fee $40,000
Annual Dues $5,000
Country Club & Corporate Memberships include Track & Facility Access, Member Racing Programs and Club Social Events. Upon joining the club, Members will receive a members pack including a Member Manual, an Embroidered Travel Bag, One Embroidered polo style shirt and an assortment of Autobahn stickers.
Corporate Member
A corporate membership has 4 designated Members from one company.
Initiation Fee $128,000 ($32,000 per designated member)
Annual Dues $20,000 ($5,000 per designated member)
Benefits are similar to a Country Club Member with the addition of 24 yearly guest driving passes ($3600 Value). Corporate Members will receive a members pack including 4 Member Manuals, 4 Embroidered Travel Bags, 4 Embroidered polo style shirts and an assortment of Autobahn stickers.
Social Member – Family
Annual Fee $4,000
The Autobahn Country Club is a premier one of a kind club in Chicago-land. Now you can take advantage of it for networking, visiting with friends, celebrating special events, hosting business meetings, impressing colleagues and “closing the sale.”
Join today and start socializing at the fastest club in the nation. You will get unlimited access to Autobahn Country Club’s facility and all of its events.
One month (30 days) unlimited track privileges during all appropriate run groups. Unlimited participation in daily Lunchtime Touring Session on Member Track in your car or in any of Autobahn’s Performance Fleet vehicles Three complimentary pro instruction sessions are provided in the lifetime of the membership. Unlimited additional classroom & skid car instruction may be purchased. Additional on-track instruction (with a maximum of five, on-track sessions) may be purchased during the lifetime of the membership. Unlimited access to the Kart Racing Track in your own kart or rent from Autobahn’s fleet. Participation in Autobahn’s Member Autocross Series. Discount on all Autobahn Driving Programs and Track Rental. One year’s Social Membership fee may be applied toward Country Club or Corporate Membership initiation.
If I win some stupid big lottery, the price for fun would be just for maintenence, worker pay, and insurance. I wouldn't want to make a dime. Just a place for friends to come and screw off.
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