why are the 'new' small cars so big? i'm interested in the new ford fiestia but its roughly the same size as an escort? I got beside a 2 door yaris today in my 92lx mustang and it was taller and maybe wider than me?? i'm looking for a newer, small car with good/great gas milage, tempted to buy the 200$ old fiesta i saw on craigs list and try to put a duratec motor in it :-)
Because everyone wants more power and more room and more airbags and more stereo and quieter ride and so on and so forth. The counter arguments to this are the MINI and the Smart car.
Also I'll bet they figure the old small wont get noticed and backed over by a hummer H2 and other monstrous SUV's that werent such a portion of the traffic 15-20 years ago.
Fiat 500? I know exactly what you mean, my Fit is HUGE-especially after years of driving Metro/Swifts. Absolutley ridiculous-still, my dashboard computer often says I'm getting over 40 mpg, so the car's doing its job. Still weird to be in a base model econobox with power everything, and a seating position like a crossover. I blame America's obesity and laziness.
wheelsmithy wrote: I know exactly what you mean, my Fit is HUGE
you ain't just whistlin' dixie
I've got a MINI and I wouldn't call it small in the context of this discussion. It's short, front to rear, but wide and heavy. The days of sub-2000 lb. cars is long gone .I understand jam's point though. I just came back from the auto show in Detroit and there were several cars there that my friends think are "small" and I think would be a nice ,comfortable DD. The Fiesta, next Focus, Kia Forte coupe, Elantra Touring , next Aveo RS and a Yaris. None are little cars though, just not 2 ton behemoths.
On that note: I've been having thoughts about getting a CooperS as a commuter...how do you like yours? Maybe I'll start a new thread....
Mixed feelings. It certainly is quick with the supercharger, and it'll corner like crazy. It's a pretty comfortable travelling car, if you're not on Michigan's potholed roads. Reasonable fuel economy, although it's really easy to get to mediocre, or poor if you use the throttle.
What's not to like? It rattles a fair amount for a premium car (model year 2003). Back seat is useless, but I don't care. I don't like the pleather upholstery, prefer cloth.Runflats are a PITA, so I run some Kumhos and carry a spare tire.There's just something missing in the way of character. I have a 94K mile Miata that I truly enjoy more, and for trips we'll normally take my wife's Xb before the MINI. It's got an automatic trans, and I find it more convenient if we're going into Detroit or Toronto traffic ( damn, I must be getting old
)The nearest dealer is 60 miles away and labour rate was $109/hr the last time I was there 18 months ago. So, I'm kinda ambivalent on the car. If I had puchased it used for $7000 I'd be ecstatic, I'll bet. If I were buying a new car, predominantly for commuting ,I'd be looking at a Yaris, Kia Rio, Fit, etc. Maybe a Fiesta once they become available. I'd like to buy American, but only when the small cars can match the imports.
On a seperate note, I went to a presentation at work (before I retired) that dealt with weight reduction efforts. The guy giving the presentation used the example of wiring harnesses. There is sooo much electrical stuff in cars and it adds wiring. The wiring harness in a Crown Vic was used as an example. It weighs over 200 pounds !!! Not much wonder you can't buy alight car anymore. I haven't looked, but I'd be surprised if there's anything in the 2100 lb range today. I think the XB is 2300, which is about what a Miata weighs, I believe, so that's pretty impressive. The MINI is 2600 or more. Anyone know what their small cars weigh? New or old models.
Mini isn't small! Three of us went camping in the winterish northern Michigan in one, and we way over packed! We didn't have any extra room though...
Joey
My 06 GTI weighs in at a smidge over 3k lbs.
DeadSkunk wrote: ,. Anyone know what their small cars weigh? New or old models.
Was 1375lbs about the time this photo was taken, probably a bit over 1400 by now since the miata seats were a bit heavier than the originals
The Yaris is probably as lightweight as you are going to find these days at around 2300 lbs. One of the reasons why I bought one. I'm about to eclipse 14k miles on mine and I have been very happy with it. Sure it is a little down on power but it will putter along at 65-70 and return 40 mpg even with not driving it gently. It will also swallow a couple big boxes or a bike in the hatch and it has a usable backseat. Sad to see how my 92 Civic weighed under 2200 lbs soaking wet and now they are up near 2800 lbs.
We'll see as currently-exotic materials become more commonplace and, hopefully, the push for more and more crap won't outpace the lightening benefits of carbon fiber, lighter alloys etc...
92dxman wrote: The Yaris is probably as lightweight as you are going to find these days at around 2300 lbs. One of the reasons why I bought one. I'm about to eclipse 14k miles on mine and I have been very happy with it. Sure it is a little down on power but it will putter along at 65-70 and return 40 mpg even with not driving it gently. It will also swallow a couple big boxes or a bike in the hatch and it has a usable backseat. Sad to see how my 92 Civic weighed under 2200 lbs soaking wet and now they are up near 2800 lbs.
What did toyota do to the yaris? We used to have an 01 Echo that weighed 2075 lbs, and that was with the auto trans. A/C was optional and we had crank windows and manual locks. 40-43mpg on synthetic fluids. Didn't even have the optional dash clock.
The auto industry is reaching its adult years, which means that the cars are packing on the pounds. Just look at the sixties; cars were all about big motors and sex appeal. Seat belts were the things permanently tucked into the bench when driving off the dealer lot. Everyone had their own ash tray and I imagine smoked nonstop.
Nowadays automakers much address boring concerns like safety, economy, and children. In the past designers could get away with putting kids in the very back facing backwards so that parents wouldn't have to look at them. Economy meant getting the most steel or speed per dollar, and safety was having a nice sized bumper. Automakers are growing up, and it sucks, because youth can't be engineered.
2003 Toyota MR2 Spyder - 2215 lbs.
jstein77 wrote: 2003 Toyota MR2 Spyder - 2215 lbs.
As sexy as that car is on paper, its relatively useless if your drive involves anything non-pylon related... I.e. kids/a wife/a grocery store etc etc etc
And for a teensy little 2 seater, thats still pretty fricken heavy
wheelsmithy wrote: Fiat 500? I know exactly what you mean, my Fit is HUGE-especially after years of driving Metro/Swifts. Absolutley ridiculous-still, my dashboard computer often says I'm getting over 40 mpg, so the car's doing its job. Still weird to be in a base model econobox with power everything, and a seating position like a crossover. I blame America's obesity and laziness.
ya the Fit is larger in every aspect than the original Accord 
I learned to drive a manual transmission on my mother's 1963 Vauxhall Viva HA. It weighed 1564 lb and had a 1057 cc engine. For comparison to a Yaris or MINI, it was 155" long X 59.5" wide X 53" high. Current MINI is 144" X 76" (includes mirrors) X 56" and weighs 2600#. No comparison in capabilities. I guess it depends on what we consumers want. That Viva would be interesting to have today as a toy, but it was less car than anything you can buy today. My first car ,after university was a '71 Datsun 510. 2100# IIRC and I'd love to have that today. BTW, love those wheels on your car, ditchdigger.
In reply to daytonaer:
I think it is some of the safety equipment (side curtain airbags). I got the optional dash clock. The only options I have are 15 inch wheels, floor mats and the weather package (heavy duty starter/alternator/heater).
I parked next to a MINI at work a couple weeks ago. That car is larger in every dimension than my BMW 2002. Taller, wider (by far), and longer. MINI's are not mini. When I drive my Mini, which by every measure qualifies as a small and light car, people expect a bunch of clowns to get out of it, or expect me to be wearing one of those silly fez's. It is so small even next to MINI's, Fit's, Yari, etc. that it is not even funny. It is very eye opening in how much cars have grown.
I used to have a first gen Accord hatchback - It would be funny to have it side by side with my son's Fit.
I think part of this trend may be that we as a nation are larger people than we were a few decades ago, but mostly I think it has to do with safety items and electronic doodads. Make the car strong enough to survive a collision and add 8 airbags then it is easy to see that cars are bigger and heavier.
I like my small cars, but do not ever want to be in one when it is hit.
wbjones wrote:wheelsmithy wrote: Fiat 500? I know exactly what you mean, my Fit is HUGE-especially after years of driving Metro/Swifts. Absolutley ridiculous-still, my dashboard computer often says I'm getting over 40 mpg, so the car's doing its job. Still weird to be in a base model econobox with power everything, and a seating position like a crossover. I blame America's obesity and laziness.ya the Fit is larger in every aspect than the original Accord
plus the original Accord got better gas milage and handled better than a new Fit
My Scion xA weigh's 2340 lb's, which is not superlight but pretty good for today's standards. I think the EG Civic's in Si trim weighed around that, although they had much better suspension and were lower and wider.
I've got 80k miles on it now without a hiccup. The paint is starting to wear in some places though. It's been a great car in all respects though.
For new small cars, I'm very exciting about the upcoming 500 and I think the Hyundai Accent is pretty neat for a small car. It doesn't have mini-minivan proportions.
My next car will be something a bit larger, as I'll be driving longer distances than I do now. Unfortunately the short wheelbase of my car , combined with short gearing, doesn't make it the most relaxed highway cruiser.
Anybody have a picture of an original (accord, camry) next to a current (civic, fit, corolla, yaris)?
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