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seann
seann New Reader
6/23/08 11:25 a.m.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/23/us/politics/23ethanol.html?em&ex=1214366400&en=bf288b4414f2c278&ei=5087%0A

I think McCain is being silly when he talks about opening up ANWR and a gas tax holiday but he's right on ethonal.

Salanis
Salanis Dork
6/23/08 11:31 a.m.

Keep big corn out of government and on the grill!

ignorant
ignorant SuperDork
6/23/08 11:31 a.m.

corn is just bad period. It's full of sugars and empty carbs, with little substance. It is very nitrogen intensive. It requires tons of water and fertilizer. It's crap. I don't eat the stuff anymore, and stay away from anything with corn in it. Which is VERY hard. Turns out I'm mildly allergic to the stuff as well.

Salanis
Salanis Dork
6/23/08 11:40 a.m.

I do think corn syrup is the bane of our society. It's something that I (almost) wouldn't mind making illegal. I think many social woes could be solved or alleviated if we got rid of corn syrup. Think of all the money saved on health care; the educational improvements of kids not being malnourished; money saved by not subsidizing a wasteful crop.

ignorant
ignorant SuperDork
6/23/08 11:53 a.m.
Salanis wrote: I do think corn syrup is the bane of our society. It's something that I (almost) wouldn't mind making illegal. I think many social woes could be solved or alleviated if we got rid of corn syrup. Think of all the money saved on health care; the educational improvements of kids not being malnourished; money saved by not subsidizing a wasteful crop.

my wife has seen diet changes, including eliminating corn, help a ton on kids with various disabilities. Mostly forms of autism and downs.

Jack
Jack SuperDork
6/23/08 12:13 p.m.

It's really hard to eliminate the corn syrup from your diet. We are working on it at home. It has no redeeming value, except for Archer Daniels Midland.

Jack

Salanis
Salanis Dork
6/23/08 12:20 p.m.
ignorant wrote: seen diet changes, including eliminating corn, help a ton on kids with various disabilities. Mostly forms of autism and downs.

Is it just me, or does there seem to have been a significant increase in the rate of autism?

Gearhead_42
Gearhead_42 HalfDork
6/23/08 12:24 p.m.
Jack wrote: It's really hard to eliminate the corn syrup from your diet. We are working on it at home. It has no redeeming value, except for Archer Daniels Midland.

troof

On all points. Corn, while perhaps tasty, has few redeeming characteristics from a health or environment standpoint.

Ties to corn lobbies disappoint. Support for alt fuels encourage. Confusion ensues.

Sigh, I hate "lesser of two weevils" elections.

Woodyhfd
Woodyhfd HalfDork
6/23/08 1:33 p.m.
Salanis wrote:
ignorant wrote: seen diet changes, including eliminating corn, help a ton on kids with various disabilities. Mostly forms of autism and downs.
Is it just me, or does there seem to have been a significant increase in the rate of autism?

I'm probably inviting trouble here but the parameters that define autism have expanded and, therefore, many more children with a variety of learning disabilities now fall under the category of "autistic".

alfadriver
alfadriver New Reader
6/23/08 1:45 p.m.

You know- it really doesn't matter that he's a Democrat, and McCain is a Rep who is not for Corn Ethanol....

It matters that Obama represents a farm state, who grows a LOT of corn. Which makes connection easy.

Or do you all forget Bob Dole? The guy who really started this whole Ethanol in our gas thing back in the 90's? Yes, it WAS Bob Dole, and not some left wing nut....

Eric

John Brown
John Brown SuperDork
6/23/08 2:01 p.m.

"I'm Bob Dole and I support Bob Dole. This message paid for by Bob Dole from the Bob Dole Bob Dolatorium"

DILYSI Dave
DILYSI Dave SuperDork
6/23/08 2:19 p.m.
alfadriver wrote: You know- it really doesn't matter that he's a Democrat, and McCain is a Rep who is not for Corn Ethanol.... It matters that Obama represents a farm state, who grows a LOT of corn. Which makes connection easy. Or do you all forget Bob Dole? The guy who really started this whole Ethanol in our gas thing back in the 90's? Yes, it WAS Bob Dole, and not some left wing nut.... Eric

I'm pretty sure it goes back further than the 90's. I remember dad bitching about gasohol back in the 70's.

seann
seann New Reader
6/23/08 2:22 p.m.
alfadriver wrote: You know- it really doesn't matter that he's a Democrat, and McCain is a Rep who is not for Corn Ethanol.... It matters that Obama represents a farm state, who grows a LOT of corn. Which makes connection easy. Or do you all forget Bob Dole? The guy who really started this whole Ethanol in our gas thing back in the 90's? Yes, it WAS Bob Dole, and not some left wing nut.... Eric

I'm not sure anyone claimed that being a dem or a rep would make a difference. And your right, it shouldn't be a surprise. Another example is Boxer, I hear she loves her some agribusiness as well and she's a democrat.

Just waiting to see that change I've been hearing about. Corn ethonal is a pretty blatant special interest, the only ones I've heard support it are the above mentioned ADM and some brainwashed Iowans I've spoken to.

doitover
doitover New Reader
6/23/08 2:35 p.m.

For what it is worth, Senator Obama's webiste lists support for cellulosic ethanol but no where does it say anything about the current process of using grain for ethanol.

That surprised me quite a bit, you would expect the senator from Illinois to be pretty vocal about using corn for ethanol.

neon4891
neon4891 HalfDork
6/23/08 3:30 p.m.

One way to sum it up is those farmers are forced to plant corn thrue some higher socio/economic powers. Then they have all this extra corn and nothing to do with it, so why not make it into gas. That is what I rember from 60 minets from a year or two ago. This form of bio fuel isn't a bad concept, corn is just a horribly ineficient and wastefull crop.

Not that I want to come off as a hippie, but if industrial hemp was fully legal, that stuff is one of the most efficent plants for ethanol production.

doitover
doitover New Reader
6/23/08 4:17 p.m.

Yes, way back when all the corn ethanol stuff started the government was buying corn and dumping it in mothballed ships. Ideas end as slowly as they start.

neon4891 wrote: One way to sum it up is those farmers are forced to plant corn thrue some higher socio/economic powers. Then they have all this extra corn and nothing to do with it, so why not make it into gas. That is what I rember from 60 minets from a year or two ago. This form of bio fuel isn't a bad concept, corn is just a horribly ineficient and wastefull crop. Not that I want to come off as a hippie, but if industrial hemp was fully legal, that stuff is one of the most efficent plants for ethanol production.
Jensenman
Jensenman SuperDork
6/23/08 4:26 p.m.
DILYSI Dave wrote:
alfadriver wrote: You know- it really doesn't matter that he's a Democrat, and McCain is a Rep who is not for Corn Ethanol.... It matters that Obama represents a farm state, who grows a LOT of corn. Which makes connection easy. Or do you all forget Bob Dole? The guy who really started this whole Ethanol in our gas thing back in the 90's? Yes, it WAS Bob Dole, and not some left wing nut.... Eric
I'm pretty sure it goes back further than the 90's. I remember dad bitching about gasohol back in the 70's.

I dealt with driveability issues caused by gasohol in the mid '80's when I worked with Ford. Those old EFI systems did NOT like alcohol.

neon4891
neon4891 HalfDork
6/23/08 4:45 p.m.

I think the old gasohole was the oposite of E85, being 85%gas and like 15% alcohol. This is what I remember from the owners manual from my mothers '94 pylmoth acclaim, and how some models (not our's) where early flex fuel vehicles. Then again, we got rid of it 6 years ago, so I'm probly wrong

RXBeetle
RXBeetle New Reader
6/23/08 5:01 p.m.

That's basically what we are driving now, E10 or 10% ethanol blend. In MI our wonderful government wrote an exemption for gas stations so they don't have to post the ethanol content of their gas as long as it is 10% or under. This of course was passed by our wonderful governor Granholm who made her stake as a consumer advocate... riiiiight. I heard her get questioned about it on the radio, her response was "why would you not want to use an alternative fuel?" ARRRRGGG! If you get real bored give this guy (Michael Pollan) a listen, I've always been a beer/meat/tater kinda guy and rolled my eyes at the people that lectured me on what I ate. I heard this guy doing an interview on NPR and I gotta admit he had me listening. http://youtube.com/watch?v=kFpjskn3_Pc

Salanis
Salanis Dork
6/23/08 5:47 p.m.

My girlfriend read his book ("The Omnivore's Dilemma"), so I got some highlights, although I haven't picked it up yet. I heard his interview on NPR too. Quite interesting. I believe his final verdict was, that generally the best foods to eat are the local/seasonal ones, and that "If it's something your great grandmother wouldn't have been able to identify as food, you should probably leave it alone."

After reading his book, my girlfriend got on a real kick to find places that sold/cooked locally raised meat. She was interested when I told her there were local ostrich, emu, and even buffalo farms. This lead to us finding what has become our favorite burger grill, which specializes in buffalo burgers.

NYG95GA
NYG95GA Dork
6/23/08 6:08 p.m.

Man, I have always wanted a Bufallo burger! Or an emu salad.

I was listening to a PBS interview today and found it interesting that one of the farmers noted that the elevator operators only wanted to talk about corn for FEED OR FUEL.

Nobody even wanted to talk about corn for FOOD.

I was thinking.. maybe that's not a bad thing.

(Except for grits; i would die without grits.)

Salanis
Salanis Dork
6/23/08 6:27 p.m.
NYG95GA wrote: Man, I have always wanted a Bufallo burger! Or an emu salad. (Except for grits; i would die without grits.)

Well, if you're ever in Sacramento, check out: http://www.flaminggrillcafe.com/

Check out the menu. Unfortunately, it does not include their specials (which change). Not long back I had a Blue Cheese Buffalo Burger. Buffalo patty, stuffed with blue cheese, with blue cheese and bacon on top. And they now serve beer. Their selection is shorter but better than most restaurants. This is one of those places where the chef is a guy who wanted to run a restaurant that serves the kind of good food he'd like to eat. And it's delicious. And their milkshakes... oh.

I love corn on the cob and polenta. Which is basically just fancy grits anyway.

NYG95GA
NYG95GA Dork
6/23/08 6:35 p.m.

The concept of a buffalo burger with bleu cheese stimulates my saliva about as much as the thought about one of my 4 cheese peppercorn grits bowls with sea salt.*

It's comforting that intelligent outspoken men such as yourself can be distracted by the mere mention of rich, fattening, wonderful food.

Beer and bacon is good, too.

Edit:*Which is considerable.

ignorant
ignorant SuperDork
6/23/08 6:41 p.m.

i love buffalo... so low fat.. such good flavor..

NYG95GA
NYG95GA Dork
6/23/08 6:54 p.m.

I have salmonella-free tomatoes in the back yard, but no buffalo .. deer, rabbits and squirrels, but no buffalos.

If anyone has a side of buffalo they can let go of, i'll trade it for a SOHC Neon engine..

Oops, I'm sorry. Did I say that out loud? Have i threadjacked? I'm mortified.. and hungry.

Time for grits!

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