Obama and Race- Will a beer fix the problem?

Its obviously a reasonable expectation that in our current form of American civilization if you give a cop attitude, you WILL be arrested. I simply don't think its just. Was Gates a douchebag? Maybe. Is that grounds for arrest? I would have hoped not.

What scares me most about this whole scenario is that the leader of the free world flinched when cops got upset. Perhaps I'm the only one who sees this as troubling?

Crowley acted stupidly. He didn't necessarily violate the law, as disorderly conduct laws are amorphously defined enough that cops can arrest anyone at any time. However, there was no legitimate NEED to arrest Gates; it did not serve or protect the public in any way, shape or form. It made a cop who was accused by an angry black man of being a racist feel better. End of story.

I'm upset the city dropped the charges.

I think they should have shelved the beer and started doing some bong hits. I'm sure Obama has one, and you know he smokes the good green.

Wowak kinda beat me to my point.

I agreed with Obama's original comment that the poilce acted stupid, but I think it's more than race. In our desire to have the police protect us from every posible boogie man out there we are supposed to allow them to do whatever until they come to the conclusion that we are not criminals.

Because I work nights, and have in several jobs that are considered evil, i have had several run-ins with the police. When I was in towing I used to pick up illegally parked cars from shopping centers and apartments. One night someone broke into our yard and stole our flatbed and a Maxima I took in the day before. At first the police came and took a report and blew it off, but then they found out the car belonged to a cop's nephew. I spent two hours being interogated for stealing the car and my own truck. I can see how they get people to confess to crimes they didn't commit, because they kept telling me that the only way out of that room would be with a confession of my guilt. I was finally able to leave when they were able confirm my "alibi".

http://www.facebook.com/ext/share.php?sid=116066187343&h=7e-fZ&u=V_csU&ref=nf

Cambridge Cop Accidentally Arrests Henry Louis Gates Again During White House MeetingJuly 31, 2009 | Issue 45•31

WASHINGTON—Upon arriving late to his meeting with President Barack Obama and famed African-American intellectual Henry Louis Gates, Cambridge police officer James Crowley once again detained the distinguished Harvard scholar after failing to recognize the man he had arrested just two weeks earlier, White House sources reported Thursday. "When I entered the Oval Office, I observed an unidentified black male sitting near Mr. Obama, and in the interest of the president's safety, I attempted to ascertain the individual's business at the White House," Crowley said in a sworn statement following the arrest. “The suspect then became uncooperative and verbally abusive. I had no choice but to apprehend him at the scene for disorderly conduct.” Witnesses said that Sgt. Crowley, failing to recognize Gates on their flight to Logan Airport, arrested the tenured professor in midair, once again at the baggage claim, and twice during their shared cab ride back to Cambridge

It wasn't a race problem that got Prof. gates arrested, it was a class problem. Rich, educated guy -vs- working class cop. I don't agree with the arrest, but then I don't know that circumstances.

carguy123 wrote: Every aspect of the new administration is a vast PR project. Not since Kennedy have we seen such an attempt at media manipulation.

Hmmmm....there are plenty of people, myself included, who think the last administration did just as much - or even more - media manipulation. It is just one of the unfortunate side effects of politics....

RedS13Coupe wrote: I can't help but wonder if he really drinks bud light, or if he just went for "the common mans beer!" because it makes him more relateable.

I would expect that your suspicions are entirely correct. Obama would drink Natty Light if he thought it would help him look like the "common man". That's how most modern politicians want to be perceived. This is the same reason that George W. invited a camera crew to film him clearing brush on the ranch.

SVreX wrote: "Why is he emphasizing historical shortcomings in law enforcement in an apparent effort to justify both Professor Gates' actions and his own, instead of observing that there is absolutely no reason to expect that the officer involved should have responded in any other way, and that his actions were both logical and reasonable?"

It was logical and reasonable to arrest a dude for yelling and acting like a douchebag on his own front porch? Being a loud douchebag is not illegal. From what I've heard all that happened was a cop asked what's going on, Gates didn't want to provide ID at first because he thought it was ridiculous to ask a person for ID on his own property, eventually ID was provided, Gates pulled the race card and took a bad tone with the cop while yelling, cop arrest Gates for creating a public disturbance...on his own property.

I agree that the whole media frenzy is silly, but Obama wants to use this - probably the majority of Republicans see him as some sort of aloof ivory tower-dwelling tea-sipping elitist because he uses big words and has a proper education, so he's going to take every opportunity he can get to make himself look more like Average Joe Sixpack.

Gates did say something to the effect afterward that "crowleys not such a bad guy when he's not arresting you". Apparently something was accomplished.

Joey

I think the thing that angers me the most is that Gates doesn't even see where he did anything wrong. Calling the race card, calling the cops wife names, acting as if the world owed him something. THose are all deemed as acceptible behaviors for a man of color. It's OK. If I was the cop, I would have file racial harrassment charges against Gates. It's a 2 way street. It's about damn time the pompous, arrogant people like Gates realized it.

After Gates provided a photo ID, and that ID had a home adress listed that was the very residence that they were standing in, the cop should have bounced. It doesn't matter what Gates was yelling to him. Cops need to have a better temperment than that. Obama should have kept his mouth shut. Chalk that up to experience, or the lack thereof. The real victim here is the lady who made the 911 call. She's been getting death threats for being a good person. I bet the next time she sees someone breaking in somewhere she'll think twice before she picks up the phone.

And gee... I wonder WHO would be making those threats? Again, the media (And public) are missing the glaringly obvious. It's OK to threaten a woman's life because she was looking out for her neighbors? It's OK to yell, scream and cuss out an officer of the law for doing his job? This is all acceptible behavior?

I don't know where this generation learned this. I was NOT brought up to believe that this type of behavior is acceptible from ANYONE, especially a PROFESSOR. Someone that is teaching, molding out youth. Exactly what is he teaching them?

Bobzilla wrote: It's OK to yell, scream and cuss out an officer of the law for doing his job? This is all acceptible behavior?

Perhaps you don't understand that in America there is not a DIRECT correlation between WRONG and ILLEGAL. Was Gates WRONG to insult a cop (assuming that he did?) Sure. But plenty of reprehensible acts are NOT illegal.

It seems that some (many?) police officers view arrest as punishment, and indeed it is. That was never the intention of the people who set up our legal system. But I guess it takes going to jail on erroneous charges to make a person realize how broken the system is.

Wowak wrote:

Bobzilla wrote: It's OK to yell, scream and cuss out an officer of the law for doing his job? This is all acceptible behavior?

Perhaps you don't understand that in America there is not a DIRECT correlation between WRONG and ILLEGAL. Was Gates WRONG to insult a cop (assuming that he did?) Sure. But plenty of reprehensible acts are NOT illegal. It seems that some (many?) police officers view arrest as punishment, and indeed it is. That was never the intention of the people who set up our legal system. But I guess it takes going to jail on erroneous charges to make a person realize how broken the system is.

While I truly do understand your point and position, and keeping in mind that we've been down this road before, I still prefer the path of simply not being an assclown to the cops. It makes life a WHOLE lot easier. Sort of like when there's a battle in my house. I know I'm right and my wife's wrong, but saying "you're right honey, I'm sorry," yields way better results and takes way less time than arguing for 4 hours and not getting laid for a week.

I'm not saying you're "wrong," just that I prefer the path of less resistance when it's nothing but good old fashioned dumb ass pride on the line.

poopshovel wrote: While I truly do understand your point and position, and keeping in mind that we've been down this road before, I still prefer the path of simply not being an assclown to the cops. It makes life a WHOLE lot easier. Sort of like when there's a battle in my house. I know I'm right and my wife's wrong, but saying "you're right honey, I'm sorry," yields way better results and takes way less time than arguing for 4 hours and not getting laid for a week. I'm not saying you're "wrong," just that I prefer the path of less resistance when it's nothing but good old fashioned dumb ass pride on the line.

Oh I completely agree with you. I prefer not to confront cops (actually I'd prefer to never speak to one in an official capacity ever again,) but just because you and I recognize that they can and will abuse their authority, that doesn't make it OK.

Wowak wrote: Oh I completely agree with you. I prefer not to confront cops (actually I'd prefer to never speak to one in an official capacity ever again,) but just because you and I recognize that they can and will abuse their authority, that doesn't make it OK.

Trans_Maro wrote:

I can't help it that there's a new story of police abusing their authority in the news seemingly every day but nobody wants to discuss the fact that the problem even exists?

http://www.nbcmiami.com/news/local-beat/Cops-Set-Up-Woman-After-Crash.html

This situation is riddled with BS. 1. The president should never have stuck his head into this. Obvious. 2. The professor shouldn't have been a dick. 3. The cop should not have arrested the prof (or have been a dick by doing so).

Cops are given too much leeway in the name of 'public safety'. They are the only entity in this United States that reverse the 'innocent until proven guilty' aspiration of our legal system. It's a hard job, but they are paid well. The prof should have canned the race card and spoken as a citizen, although, if you're that age, you probably have been subject to plenty of actual discrimination to feel as if it was worth pulling the card.

They should not have mx-5'd out and gone with the BL.

Um so is calling an officer names and cursing at his when he's been sent to make sure people weren't jacking your stuff isn't considered disorderly conduct? Think about that next time you have a shiny happy person for a customer.

Innocent until proven guilty is far from reality.

I'm with you on that, Strizzo.

I understand that disorderly conduct is a nebulous charge that can be used inappropriately. But it IS a crime, and by every account I've heard (with the various versions) it still sounds like a very reasonable charge given the circumstances.

Its important to note that he wasn't charged with breaking and entering. The fact that Mr. Gates produced a photo id in fact DID earn him a pass from the officers on the initial reason for their visit. There is no reason to assume they weren't prepared to walk away.

Mr. Gates apparently changed the circumstances when he crossed the line and acted in an inappropriate manner. He acted disorderly, and was charged accordingly.

MrJoshua wrote: Innocent until proven guilty is far from reality.

Not true.

Being charged with a crime does not make one guilty of it. Being found guilty of the crime in a court of law makes one guilty.

I lived in a country for 2 years where people are guilty until proven innocent. Trust me, we (thankfully) don't have that problem.

SVreX wrote:

MrJoshua wrote: Innocent until proven guilty is far from reality.

Not true. Being charged with a crime does not make one guilty of it. Being found guilty of the crime in a court of law makes one guilty. I lived in a country for 2 years where people are guilty until proven innocent. Trust me, we (thankfully) don't have that problem.

OK, so the label "Guilty" does not legally apply until you are convicted. On the other hand, If you are involved in any part of the legal system you are treated as if you are guilty from the first interaction with the officer. Then, If you are poor you are just guided to what they deem is the appropriate punishment (which you wait for in jail btw). On the other hand, If you are financially capable you pay lots and lots for an attorney who proves your "innocence" while breaking your financial back. The idea of innocent until proven guilty is noble and perhaps leads us to have a better system than any other country in the world, but in reality we are treated guilty from minute one.

SVreX wrote: I lived in a country for 2 years where people are guilty until proven innocent. Trust me, we (thankfully) don't have that problem.

The hell we don't have that problem. War on drugs, war on terror, traffic court, social services, etc.

We have a hell of a problem when a man, IN HIS OWN HOME, gets jacked up by a cop who wants him to bow down a submit to him, lick his boots as it were. All because he's got a badge and a gun.

I'm not defending Gates, he seems like an obnoxious twit. But I damn well will defend him in his full legal constitutional right to be an obnoxious twit in his own home.

What really sucks though, is most people think what the cop did is fine. Most folk believe you should submit to a cop, no matter what. That anything done to trash freedom in the name of safety is wonderfull.

poopshovel wrote: 'and takes way less time than arguing for 4 hours and not getting laid for a week.'

amen