Palin: Young Earth Creationist

http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-na-palinreligion28-2008sep28,0,3643718.story?page=1&track=rss

I think you can forget about any more (non-military-driven) scientific advancement from the states if this bunch takes the helm

It could be argued that if we teach our kids creationism we're teaching them to value dogma and tradition over logic and critical thinking.

That could then mean that our kids would grow up to be theologians first and scientists second. They could spend their time trying to find out where Adam and Eve lived on earth instead of trying to find out if stem cells can be used to grow new limbs to replace lost ones.

Xceler8x wrote: They could spend their time trying to find out where Adam and Eve lived on earth instead of trying to find out if stem cells can be used to grow new limbs to replace lost ones.

But stem cells are bad. God says you shouldn't do that.

Creationism has some really good lessons in it....

Now when I can't understand something I'm being taught in school, I just argue until they teach me something different.

You're missing something:

TFA said:As governor and in her formative role as mayor of Wasilla, Palin has trod carefully between her evangelical faith and public policy on issues such as abortion and library books. At times she has retreated when her moves have sparked controversy or proved politically impractical. She has harnessed the political muscle of social conservatives and antiabortion groups, yet she did not push hard for a special legislative session on abortion, and she did not challenge a court ruling that allowed health insurance for same-sex partners of state workers.

That's gotta be worth something? Balancing your personal beliefs with your public duty? If only all politicians did so...

"(insert elipsis) [She] upset the town's chief librarian by asking what the process would be for banning books."

I wonder what books she wanted to ban? Also, perhaps she only wanted to know so that she could make a change to the policy allowing book banning?

Most often banned book? World wide? The Bible , King james version or other.

Need a good explaination of it? The Very short version? Google : George Carlin , God, church...

and enjoy.

..." but He LOVES you...and needs... MONEY!"

This woman scares me .... just a heart beat away from the office. Obama ? no better

Write in : Ron Paul

MGAMGB wrote: Yup, because all scientific research hinges upon a minor facet of one person's personal belief regarding the origin of the species. Science trumps all and there's no room for differing opinion or hypothesis.

Sorry, but if someone rejects all evidence and instead determines the earths age by approximating the number of generations and average lifespans from two characters in a book, they might have problems with logic and reason.

I've done it once and I'll do it again if I have to.

Bill Hicks wrote: Fundamentalist Christianity - fascinating. These people actually believe that the the world is 12,000 years old. Swear to God. Based on what? I asked them. "Well we looked at all the people in the Bible and we added 'em up all the way back to Adam and Eve, their ages: 12,000 years." Well how berkeleying scientific, okay. I didn't know that you'd gone to so much trouble. That's good. You believe the world's 12,000 years old? "That's right." Okay, I got one word to ask you, a one word question, ready? "Uh-huh." Dinosaurs. "You know the world's 12 thousand years old and dinosaurs existed, they existed in that time, you'd think it would have been mentioned in the berkeleying Bible at some point." "And lo Jesus and the disciples walked to Nazareth. But the trail was blocked by a giant brontosaurus... with a splinter in his paw. And O the disciples did run a shriekin': 'What a big berkeleying lizard, Lord!' But Jesus was unafraid and he took the splinter from the brontosaurus's paw and the big lizard became his friend. And Jesus sent him to Scotland where he lived in a loch for O so many years inviting thousands of American tourists to bring their fat berkeleying families and their fat dollar bills.And oh Scotland did praise the Lord. Thank you Lord, thank you Lord. Thank you Lord." "Get this, I actually asked one of these guys, OK, Dinosaurs fossils - how does that fit into you scheme of life? Let me sit down and strap in. He said, "Dinosaur fossils? God put those there to test our faith." I think God put you here to test my faith, Dude. You believe that? "uh huh." Does that trouble anyone here? The idea that God.. might be.. berkeleyin' with our heads? I have trouble sleeping with that knowledge. Some prankster God running around: "Hu hu ho. We will see who believes in me now, ha ha." [mimes God burying fossils] "I am God, I am a prankster." "I am killing Me."

SoloSonett wrote: This woman scares me .... just a heart beat away from the office. Obama ? no better

Obama is worlds more tolerant than Palin or McCain...which is kind of like saying he's worlds more tolerant than an angry hive of killer bees. He's also slightly more tolerant than Ron Paul (see: Ron Paul's consistent gay bashing, anti-abortion stance)

Outside of social policies though...I can see why the candidates from the two big parties scare you.

SoloSonett wrote: Most often banned book? World wide? The Bible , King james version or other.

I'm less concerned about books banned worldwide. I can't really influence that. It would not surprise me if nations that are ardently religious ban books that disagree with them. I also wouldn't be surprised if that includes banning all versions of the bible except for a particular translation.

I am interested in what books are systematically banned in this country. You know, the one where I get to vote.

Damn.... I forgot how funny Bill Hicks really was. Thanks for the reminder.

Wow, conservative politics and Christian bashing in one thread...

Would that make this Deep Fried Flounder with a side of Caribou?

dude... she was just blessed against all forms of witchcraft.. aren't anti creationist people witches?

How could this have happened?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/po/20080926/co_po/palinwitchcraftproofedwarnsofgreatdepression

Maybe we should find out if gameboyrmh weighs as much as tiny rocks, small bits of word, or a duck?

confuZion3 wrote: "(insert elipsis) [She] upset the town's chief librarian by asking what the process would be for banning books." I wonder what books she wanted to ban? Also, perhaps she only wanted to know so that she could make a change to the policy allowing book banning?

What in that quote made you jump to the conclusion that she is the one who wanted to ban books? Sure it's not the librarian? Town council? School board? An out of context quote like that offers very little in the way of facts.

Most librarians ban some books. It's part of the job.

SVreX wrote: Most librarians ban some books. It's part of the job.

I tried to run a search to see if that has any basis in fact (my sister was once a librarian and I never heard anything about that) but I couldn't turn up anything. I did find this though:

http://www.adn.com/sarah-palin/story/515512.html

This post suggests that librarians do not like to ban books:

http://www.librarian.net/stax/2366/sarah-palin-vp-nominee/

So does this:

http://www.ala.org/ala/aboutala/offices/oif/bannedbooksweek/bannedbooksweek.cfm

So really, where do you get the idea that most librarians ban books and it's just part of the job?

Also the quote isn't really out of context, the context is just a click away (and it's assumed that if you're in this thread you should have read the context or at least be aware of it). There's a popular acronym on many blog sites, "RTFA."

A librarian can not include all books in a library. They must choose which books will or will not get included in the library. I'm certain that includes certain judgements that aren't necessarily bad. If a public elementary school librarian chooses not to include the Kama Sutra or a collection of erotica, that's not necessarily wrong. Sexually explicit books aren't appropriate for that audience. I wouldn't call that "banning" but it is a form of censorship.

It depends on the reasons why those books are kept out. What makes them inappropriate? Having an unpopular social message is different from being age inappropriate for the library's audience.

There is a difference between saying that you need to remove a book from a library and choosing not to add it to the collection. Or is there?

MGAMGB wrote: What kind of GRM political thread would it be without suggesting people are stupid for having an opposing opinion? It's how we do it round here.

I think you're stupid for suggesting that's what's going on here! Wait...

In seriousness, it doesn't seem like people are calling other members on the board stupid. They are pointing out the illogic of a certain line of thinking and wondering why people hold that view. If someone says "The world is flat and the sun revolves around the earth," and you tell them that they are incorrect and improperly educated, you're not "bashing" on their beliefs.

If a presidential candidate believed the world were flat, would you trust them to make sound foreign policy decisions? Granted, that is more extreme than what is going on here.

Here's the best source of info on Palin's book-banning question I've been able to find:

http://www.snopes.com/politics/palin/bannedbooks.asp

GameboyRMH wrote: Here's the best source of info on Palin's book-banning question I've been able to find: http://www.snopes.com/politics/palin/bannedbooks.asp

So, it is apparantly false, right?

Beyond what Salanis already covered, most public libraries now have censoring software on their computers.

SVreX wrote:

confuZion3 wrote: "(insert elipsis) [She] upset the town's chief librarian by asking what the process would be for banning books." I wonder what books she wanted to ban? Also, perhaps she only wanted to know so that she could make a change to the policy allowing book banning?

What in that quote made you jump to the conclusion that she is the one who wanted to ban books? Sure it's not the librarian? Town council? School board? An out of context quote like that offers very little in the way of facts. Most librarians ban some books. It's part of the job.

No, you misunderstood me. The second question I asked I think may have been ambiguous. My point was that the article may have been putting a spin on what actually happened. If she did not actually want to ban a specific book or subject, perhaps she wanted to know the process so that she could abolish it, or perhaps make it more difficult to ban a book.

Salanis wrote: If someone says "The world is flat and the sun revolves around the earth," and you tell them that they are incorrect and improperly educated, you're not "bashing" on their beliefs.

Right on. You're "basing" them on a personal basis instead.

And a librarian deciding not to include a book in his library is different than the Governer of a state (or was she Mayor at the time?) forcing him (and all other librarians in his state) to remove the book from his shelves.

SVreX wrote:

GameboyRMH wrote: Here's the best source of info on Palin's book-banning question I've been able to find: http://www.snopes.com/politics/palin/bannedbooks.asp

So, it is apparantly false, right?

The list of books is a fake. You'd know that if you read the text below the list.

To save you the left-mouse-button work:

Snopes said: According to the Anchorage Daily News, around the time Sarah Palin first assumed the mayorship of Wasilla back in 1996, she initiated some speculative discussions with the city's librarian about the possibility of removing some "objectionable" books from the public library: In December 1996, [city librarian Mary Ellen] Emmons told her hometown newspaper, the Frontiersman, that Palin three times asked her — starting before she was sworn in — about possibly removing objectionable books from the library if the need arose. When the matter came up for the second time in October 1996, during a City Council meeting, Anne Kilkenny, a Wasilla housewife who often attends council meetings, was there. Like many Alaskans, Kilkenny calls the governor by her first name. "Sarah said to Mary Ellen, 'What would your response be if I asked you to remove some books from the collection?" Kilkenny said. "I was shocked. Mary Ellen sat up straight and said something along the line of, 'The books in the Wasilla Library collection were selected on the basis of national selection criteria for libraries of this size, and I would absolutely resist all efforts to ban books.'" Palin didn't mention specific books at that meeting, Kilkenny said. Palin herself, questioned at the time, called her inquiries rhetorical and simply part of a policy discussion with a department head "about understanding and following administration agendas," according to the Frontiersman article. According to that same article, no evidence has been uncovered that any books were actually censored or removed from Wasilla's library as a result of these discussions: Were any books censored [or] banned? June Pinell-Stephens, chairwoman of the Alaska Library Association's Intellectual Freedom Committee since 1984, checked her files and came up empty-handed. Pinell-Stephens also had no record of any phone conversations with Emmons about the issue back then. Emmons was president of the Alaska Library Association at the time.

confuZion3 wrote:

Salanis wrote: If someone says "The world is flat and the sun revolves around the earth," and you tell them that they are incorrect and improperly educated, you're not "bashing" on their beliefs.

Right on. You're "basing" them on a personal basis instead.

I think it is perfectly acceptable to belittle, poke fun at and generally mock anyone over the age of say... 12 that has all their faculties and still believes the earth is flat, 12000yrs old, and Jesus was riding around on dinosaurs like Fred Flinstone. As soon as I can find a way to make money off them I'll add 'exploiting' to the list as well.

Obligatory pic: