Pearl Harbor, min by min

I know there are a number of posters here who are interested in WWII history, and I've posted about the channel World War II- who are doing a "live" week by week review of the war.  Funny that it's 79 years instead of 80 off, but they started it back in 2018...

Anyway, tomorrow is Dec 7, and they have planned a 5 hour min by min review of what happen in Hawaii.  I plan to have it on in my living room tomorrow since I'm working from home- but here's the channel- https://www.youtube.com/c/WorldWarTwo

I've learned a TON of things that happened in the war that I didn't know about- details that are never covered in the short histories.  And I've been learning about it since I was a kid.

Thanks for the heads up!

Thanks.

Interesting.

Yes, it is very true that even history buffs who know a lot about the period generally know about the "big" things, but have almost no knowledge of anything else.  Obviously that is because most history you hear is simply re-telling the same stories from the same sources (I suspect some of the YouTube stuff you see is simply reading off of Wikipedia!).  It was the point I tried to make to my (now deceased) step father, who had extensive experience in WWII and later naval aviation, to tell some of his stories of day to day life.  He though no one would have much interest...

True story. I was born on Pearl Harbor day. My mom calls me the bomb cause she went into labor and 45 minutes later I arrived. Bam!

My first mentor in wrenching was 11 or so and his father was stationed in Hawaii during the attack.  He saw it firsthand, probably one of the reasons he lied about his age to join the Marines at 14 and go off to fight

You can go on base in Hickam AFB and still see bullet holes in some of the buildings.

My wife's mother and father where born on Hawaii.  Her grandmother/grandfather (Japanese) ran a liquor stor in Eva (near Pearl).  After the attack, they dug a hole in the back yard and buried anything Japanese in it.  They did avoid the camps (as many Japanese in Hawaii did), but there is a least one relative who go put in one.

As I have mentioned previously, her dad was right next to the airfield (Haleiwa) where to two P-40's that got off during the initial attack where stationed.

I am sure it was a crazy, confusing time for them.

My oldest uncle was a survivor of the Pearl Harbor attack. Had tried for Army Air Corp, but wasn’t accepted,so went in the Navy. When Navy agreed to teach him to fly, Army decided they wanted him! He turned them down; retired out of the Navy as a NCO Pilot. Pretty elite  group. Middle of the three brothers went in Army  Air Corp. for WWII, Dad was Air National Guard for Korea. I built nuke subs as a civilian contractor, so lots of military in my “ways”

aircooled said:

Interesting.

Yes, it is very true that even history buffs who know a lot about the period generally know about the "big" things, but have almost no knowledge of anything else.  Obviously that is because most history you hear is simply re-telling the same stories from the same sources (I suspect some of the YouTube stuff you see is simply reading off of Wikipedia!).  It was the point I tried to make to my (now deceased) step father, who had extensive experience in WWII and later naval aviation, to tell some of his stories of day to day life.  He though no one would have much interest...

Given the detail that World War Two goes into, there's no way they are regurgitating Wiki pages.  Every week is another 13-20min episode of what went on the previous week.  With some special shows in the week too. They also went into depth on the Maginot Line, which turns out it worked much better than everyone thinks, physically.  Heck, I had no idea that it actually DID reach up to the Channel. It was a leadership problem with France that doomed them.  The Line wasn't perfect, by any means, but it was not an absolute failure, like most think.

Something I learned just recently about Pearl Harbor: the Japanese planes had a clear shot at the Navy's fuel storage tanks, but didn't bother taking it because, as far as they were concerned, there was no point.  It was an accepted fact that it would be quick and easy for the US to replace all that fuel, so why bother?

I haven't decided whether to respond to that little miscalculation with "Oops!" or "Holy crap."

alfadriver (Forum Supporter) said:

aircooled said:

 

Given the detail that World War Two goes into, there's no way they are regurgitating Wiki pages....

Yeah, I don't mean to imply this channel.  I do run across some random history (and aviation) related things  that where what best might be described as "a bit light on depth"

Of course I did run across this guy who has gone into GREAT detail in analyzing the P47s design and performance. I fully respect his commitment.

For whatever reason, I can't get youtube to load right now. Huh. 

In any case, if anyone wants to explore micro-history of WW2, or any US war since WW1, explore the database here: https://memory.loc.gov/diglib/vhp/html/search/search.html. The government has been documenting video interviews of veterans, and their experiences. Not sure how long, but it is tremendous. 

aircooled said:

alfadriver (Forum Supporter) said:

aircooled said:

 

Given the detail that World War Two goes into, there's no way they are regurgitating Wiki pages....

Yeah, I don't mean to imply this channel.  I do run across some random history (and aviation) related things  that where what best might be described as "a bit light on depth"

Of course I did run across this guy who has gone into GREAT detail in analyzing the P47s design and performance. I fully respect his commitment.

Cool

These guys are actually named Time Ghost History- and they also did a week by week review of WWI, as well, as well as an on going series between the two wars.  Pretty cool group.

A little bit of a heads up for the forma- I got a preview yesterday (but will wait to the start to watch)- the videos will be 10 30 min episodes, starting at 6:10 Hawaii time- or 11:10 EST.  

alfadriver (Forum Supporter) said:

A little bit of a heads up for the forma- I got a preview yesterday (but will wait to the start to watch)- the videos will be 10 30 min episodes, starting at 6:10 Hawaii time- or 11:10 EST.  

Thanks for that!

I've watched some of the promos and completely missed that detail, and was about to ask.

Sorry was in a meeting, but they have started.  Episode 2 is just about finished.  Thanks to the slow down at the end of the year, I was able to kind of pay attention.

I listened to all of them up to the main attach and had to do work stuff. Very cool, although the repeated ads are pushing me off time schedule. I'll try to catch up when things quiet down this afternoon.

In reply to ultraclyde (Forum Supporter) :

My TV is keeping the ads down, but I'm a few min behind thanks to the slower update in Yourtube.

so, I've still got to make a time to watch episode 2 and 5;  but, I think that's some very compelling storytelling.

I was pretty transfixed for most of it.  Well done!  The last episode was more about the world at the time, and setting the pre and post scene. 

Mr_Asa said:

My first mentor in wrenching was 11 or so and his father was stationed in Hawaii during the attack.  He saw it firsthand, probably one of the reasons he lied about his age to join the Marines at 14 and go off to fight

You can go on base in Hickam AFB and still see bullet holes in some of the buildings.

My former son in law lived in Schofield Barracks before he and my daughter married.  We got the inside tour when we went to visit later and got to see the bullet holes in the barracks.  We got to drive around Ford Island unmolested.   Unfortunately it was raining during our tour to the Arizona and the water was murky.  

I enjoyed the background insights and larger world view. As a gen Xer I know a lot of the hard dates and history, but a lot less of the nuances  of the global culture that puts so much of it in context. 

Here is an interesting piece of history.

December 7, 1941 -- 79 years ago today.......Have you ever noticed that the rock wall on the right side of the entrance to Lake Greenwood State Park is unfinished? Here's the story....

The CCC workers at Lake Greenwood began construction on the entrance wall to the park in the fall of 1941 but were interrupted following the bombing of Pearl Harbor on December 7. As word of the attack reached the park, the men of the CCC (working there) stopped their work. The country had entered World War II, and the CCC boys building the rock wall at Lake Greenwood were deployed to fight. They traded their axes and shovels for rifles and ammunition.

The CCC never returned to finish their work at the park, and until this day, the rock entrance wall remains unfinished -- a symbolic reminder of what happened that day. www.southcarolinaparks.com/lakegreenwood

Things I learned that I had no idea....

P36.  While I thought I knew about all about WWII fighters, I didn't know about that one.  Given the pop culture around Dec 7, all we know about is the P40s (and the B17's, kind of)- but the P36 did more to shoot down planes than the P40 did.  

It was also cool to get some more background info about the ships- like how the Nevada had two boilers going because of a decision by a Jr Officer.  Lucky call.

And I have NEVER seen any story that covered the fact that the Enterprise planes were part of the attack- she had scout planes out (which was normal) and many of them had planned on landing on Ford Island.  Many got shot down instead.  One tried to go back to the ship, only to not find it due to it evading the attack.  I really didn't know she was that close, even though I think I remember hearing that she was supposed to arrive on Dec 7.

They also pointed out the dichotomy that the Japanese sank the ships that they just proved to be obsolete.  Not counting the devastating loss of life, the loss of the battleships were not a deal breaker.

The number of US planes to get in the air was probably 2x as many as I had thought.  Back up to the P36 thing.

The story that Toyman just posted- I do wonder how many other stories like that are out there.  As even including the draft that had started earlier, there was a massive surge in enlistments on Dec 8.  There have to be a lot of very similar stories.

Thanks for the tip off to this site. Extremely interesting. Just finished watching episode one. I consider myself a WWII buff, and this supplied much more detail. I can't wait to get on to the rest of the Pearl Harbor episodes. Unfortunately, Annie lost interest in the first few minutes because of the narrator (she couldn't stand the twit), which I agree is pretty annoying. Too bad because even though his delivery is flawed, the information was very informative and entertaining. So the rest of the episodes I'll be watching on my own. I'm sure I'll have more comments as I watch subsequent episodes.