Pesky Neutrinos do it again

Neutrino experiment affirms faster-than-light claim - November 18, 2011

I assumed this would be shot down pretty easily by independents but... they did it again with the same result and while we are still waiting for independent dismissal or verification... the possibility that it is correct leaves room for a lot of fascinating possibilities. Cool E36 M3.

Im not sure whats going on here? How can I use this to increase the lateral stability of my autocross car at 10/10ths?

...

4cylndrfury wrote: Im not sure whats going on here? How can I use this to increase the lateral stability of my autocross car at 10/10ths? ...

It means 11/10ths is possible

It means that something is going faster than the electrons that we count on for operating our brains and our sense of time... so theoretically, a Neutrino based life form could finish the entire course after you finished and before you started.

I think it makes sense to build a car out of this stuff:

http://news.yahoo.com/worlds-lightest-solid-takes-inspiration-eiffel-tower-134809070.html

Good news everyone!

/ProfessorFarnsworth

So they knew when to press the button to begin the experiment because the results had already happened?

Which came first the chicken or the egg?

If the results had already happened then what if they got excited and forgot to push the button.

What if you went back in time and accidentally made your grandfather not meet your grandmother?

If I understand this right, this is more like arriving before you're scheduled to.

DoctorBlade wrote: If I understand this right, this is more like arriving before you're scheduled to.

That's what she said.

carguy123 wrote: So they knew when to press the button to begin the experiment because the results had already happened? Which came first the chicken or the egg? If the results had already happened then what if they got excited and forgot to push the button. What if you went back in time and accidentally made your grandfather not meet your grandmother?

carguy123 wrote: So they knew when to press the button to begin the experiment because the results had already happened? Which came first the chicken or the egg? If the results had already happened then what if they got excited and forgot to push the button. What if you went back in time and accidentally made your grandfather not meet your grandmother?

then you'd be this guy..

he's his own grandfather, which is why he is missing a brainwave that allowed him to save the universe from flying brains..

DoctorBlade wrote: If I understand this right, this is more like arriving before you're scheduled to.

As I understand it, it is more like arriving before it is possible to.

Which, when expanded to the next level, implies the possibility of arriving before you leave, ergo time travel.

In reply to SVreX:

It just means that the speed limit of everything in the universe is possibly not what we thought it was and that there are particles out there that can travel faster than light. They didn't arrive before they left - they arrived before they should have according to Einstein's Theory of General Relativity which requires that light is moving at the speed limit of the universe to hold true for all cases. Obviously, it applies to a pretty broad range of things that humans are capable of sampling. The implications here are very interesting for sure but the result of this experiment is by no means conclusive until the concerns about the technology used to measure have been allayed and we have independent verification.

They were able to repeat the findings but have only addressed one of the possible causes of inaccuracy. They shortened the photon pulse down to 3ns to make a more accurate estimate of where in the burst the neutrinos were released but they are still using a GPS system to sync the clocks at each end of the experiment. It is more than a little ironic that it is a direct application of Relativity that is being used to try to knock it down.

They are very serious, diligent, careful and the numbers bear out the result but that does not mean the test was correct. MINOS in Illinois is going to try to independently repeat the experiment - the article says as early as 2012. This is a great (widely publicized) example of skepticism and the Scientific Method in action.

I was joking

SVreX wrote: I was joking

I'll re-calibrate the sensors.

How did they track the speed? I need something that can keep up with the MR2, and it sounds like they finally built something.

SVreX wrote: I was joking

That wasn't actually wrong... There are some mathematical situations where you can show that FTL travel is equivalent to time travel. Technically, if you make a graph of the neutrino's "light cone", you can think of FTL travel as moving it outside the cone by pushing it out horizontal axis, and time travel as moving it outside the cone by pulling it down vertically. You can make it end up in the same spot on the graph which means they are sort-of equivalent actions. It's not the same thing, but you end up thinking about it the same way.

Well, all good jokes have SOME basis in reality ...

...or are completely misunderstood.

Guess I hit a double home run that time!

(or perhaps a double strike-out!)

novaderrik wrote:

carguy123 wrote: What if you went back in time and accidentally made your grandfather not meet your grandmother?

then you'd be this guy.. he's his own grandfather, which is why he is missing a brainwave that allowed him to save the universe from flying brains..

Futurama is a great comedy show for nerds. "Nuclear winter happened but it was cancelled out by Global Warming."

I was under the impression that einsteins law about no particle being able to travel faster than light also dealt with mass. Do neutrinos have mass?

mad_machine wrote: I was under the impression that einsteins law about no particle being able to travel faster than light also dealt with mass. Do neutrinos have mass?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neutrino

from wikipedia article: A neutrino (English pronunciation: /njuːˈtriːnoʊ/, Italian pronunciation: [neuˈtriːno]) is an electrically neutral, weakly interacting elementary subatomic particle[1] with a half-integer spin, chirality and a disputed but small non-zero mass.

so, yes.. kinda.. maybe.

unless you're talking about these Neutrinos:

then, no.. they are from a cartoon about mutant teenage turtles that are ninjas or something..

I think it means you can finish your autocross run before you start, but it will mess up the timing lights and you'll all sit around in the hot sun for half an hour while they sort it out. Trick is to time it so you finish immediately after the guy in front of you. If you finish before him, he gets the smokin' time.

What I'm wondering is how they managed to measure a 731 km distance accurately enough for the experiment - it seems as if they were off by a millimeter or so, the time wouldn't have put the speed at faster than light.

MadScientistMatt wrote: What I'm wondering is how they managed to measure a 731 km distance accurately enough for the experiment - it seems as if they were off by a millimeter or so, the time wouldn't have put the speed at faster than light.

They used clocks, sync'd via GPS. You know how much distance the electrons traveled because you know exactly how fast the speed of light is and how much time has elapsed... so as long as your clocks are perfectly sync'd... (hence the bone of contention).

I am curious as to how you can measure something faster than an electron can travel with an electrical system except to note that it "appeared" to be there first. Kinda like measuring the thickness of two sheets of paper with a yardstick.