In reply to Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) :
There may be some variation in how they work from state to state, but I know in my Dad's case in New Mexico, they've set up something I believe might be called a "d9nor advised fund/trust".
They also have connections too use to bring in universities or other organizations of that kind.
In reply to mtn (Forum Supporter) :
Hilarious!
I might resurrect a rallycross car for that event.
mtn (Forum Supporter) said:
- Step 1: Buy a bushhog
- Step B: Mow a rallycross course
- Step Tres: Rent it to SCCA for a weekend.
- Camping is an extra $15.
- Nothing is included except one man show by Curtis - his version of Les Miserable, done through interpretive miming. Naked.
- $25 to be far enough away to not see the show.
- $50 to participate.
- part IV: set up a quick hotdog stand.
- Number 6: ???
- Finalé: Profit
A lot of people don't know that I used to make really good money as a male stripper. I would start taking clothes off and women would throw twenties and shout "please put it back on!"
I will say, it would be a highly challenging rallycross course. Many of the hills are super steep.... as in I can't even get an ATV up them.
But yes. Hot dogs.
Karacticus said:In reply to Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) :
There may be some variation in how they work from state to state, but I know in my Dad's case in New Mexico, they've set up something I believe might be called a "d9nor advised fund/trust".
They also have connections too use to bring in universities or other organizations of that kind.
This gives me something to research. Thank you.
In reply to Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) :
If you really want, I could probably get find you a West Virginia state contact through what I've done or through my Dad.
When the time comes, I'll likely do that, but I'm in the super early stages. Mom and dad aren't showing any of the typical symptoms you associate with death... although they sometimes smell a little funny. 
I don't have advice for you on what to do with the property but I DO have advice on what to be keeping in the back of your mind as/when you inherit the estate (& I mean the total assets of your parents not just the land). Does the state have an "estate tax" or "inheritance tax"? If so you need to start paying attention to what the rates are and at what amount do they kick in. There's a federal inheritance tax but it doesn't kick in until around $11mil from what I hear. And will there be any significant debts to pay off? And, another fun thing - you will need to file a tax return on their behalf for the year they die. And so you should familiarize yourself with what they paid/didn't pay in these current years so you get an idea of what the pro-rated version will be like in the year they pass on. And how much does it cost to die? Meaning how much for cremation/funeral etc. Just to give you an idea, a bare-bones cremation and the other fees for a rural funeral home is around $2k all in. Burials and services go up from there.
I'm writing all of this to try and help you answer the relevant question some of these other posts are asking - like how long could the property go on under such-and-such a scenario. Once you have a handle on where the net worth of their estate will be once all of the taxes, death costs, services, payoff of any debt, distribution of the will... - you will then be able to make decisions on what to do next.
Oh and one last thing worth $.02 from me. I would not make any radical decisions on what to do until at least a year after they pass. Your perspective will change over time.
How about some RV pads near the road? I'm not sure how the local economy is but Google shows a university at the very least. Rent the spots sort of cheap. Power should be running by and shouldn't be horrible to get some hookups. Sewer and water is a bit harder.
But it means that the family can still use it, there's less maintenance than a house and less problems if they wreck it. Since you have neighbors close by they can watch it for you too. $2000 a year isn't much in rent
Sparkydog said:I don't have advice for you on what to do with the property but I DO have advice on what to be keeping in the back of your mind as/when you inherit the estate (& I mean the total assets of your parents not just the land). Does the state have an "estate tax" or "inheritance tax"? If so you need to start paying attention to what the rates are and at what amount do they kick in. There's a federal inheritance tax but it doesn't kick in until around $11mil from what I hear. And will there be any significant debts to pay off? And, another fun thing - you will need to file a tax return on their behalf for the year they die. And so you should familiarize yourself with what they paid/didn't pay in these current years so you get an idea of what the pro-rated version will be like in the year they pass on. And how much does it cost to die? Meaning how much for cremation/funeral etc. Just to give you an idea, a bare-bones cremation and the other fees for a rural funeral home is around $2k all in. Burials and services go up from there.
I'm writing all of this to try and help you answer the relevant question some of these other posts are asking - like how long could the property go on under such-and-such a scenario. Once you have a handle on where the net worth of their estate will be once all of the taxes, death costs, services, payoff of any debt, distribution of the will... - you will then be able to make decisions on what to do next.
Oh and one last thing worth $.02 from me. I would not make any radical decisions on what to do until at least a year after they pass. Your perspective will change over time.
All super great advice, especially the waiting for a year.
As far as inheritance tax, there is none currently but that can change every 4 years. The state allows family real estate transfers for $1, and (currently) that family transfer can happen as long as the estate is still open (post mortem). Mom and dad are already asking my sister and I about their other properties and who wants what which is why I'm visiting this now instead of waiting until they've passed. They also have mom's parents' property in Bedford PA which is pretty worthless in terms of market value. They have a small lot in a trailer park on Chincoteague VA too.
My sister and my nephews and I were just talking about it and it made me think of starting the conversation.
Here in SC you can put a property into a conservation easement with the state, which removes much of the tax burden from it (if not all). You retain ownership of the property, but future use is determined by the agreement you set up with the state. Once the agreement is in force it is for perpetuity, so proceed with caution. I don't know if WV has this program or not.
Curtis, I’ve got nothing for you but seriously, the uterus off Cherrycamp Road? Who writes this stuff? I’m not brave enough but it would be awesome to be your understudy.
Your grandparents sound like they were amazing people, I really hope you can find a way to keep this property in the family. A lot of good suggestions from the hive.
11GTCS said:Curtis, I’ve got nothing for you but seriously, the uterus off Cherrycamp Road? Who writes this stuff? I’m not brave enough but it would be awesome to be your understudy.
Your grandparents sound like they were amazing people, I really hope you can find a way to keep this property in the family. A lot of good suggestions from the hive.
Don't forget, I currently live on Berkley St.
But my property looks like a rectangle. Boring.
Get that land in a trust pronto. Then upon their death it becomes yours without changing hands and paying taxes.
I'm willing to bet real money that some GRM dorks would love a friend who has cool camping land available for the cost of an annual weekend of work.
OHSCrifle said:Get that land in a trust pronto. Then upon their death it becomes yours without changing hands and paying taxes.
I'm willing to bet real money that some GRM dorks would love a friend who has cool camping land available for the cost of an annual weekend of work.
Funny thing is, I was just on Harrison County's property mapper site, and I noticed that a couple of the farms out there are already listed as a Trust. I assume it has something to do with setting up the farm as a business/LLC, but here is where my brain gets completely berkeleyed. The one neighbor has the farm in a trust, I assume because he's 80 and has a large family in the area. The neighbor down the road has his farm in a trust, but he's single, no family, and in his mid 30s.
I'm semi hip on real estate stuff, but when it comes to financial stuff pertaining to real estate, I'm clueless. All I know is that Trusts remove your name from real estate and put it into a sort of LLC... but it isn't an LLC. And it can be a tax benefit.... or not. And it can be used for asset protection.... or not.
Lease the farm-able land for farming. Turn the rest into a dry camp Rv camp ground. There is a huge shortage of available rv campgrounds now. Would need a reliable camp manager (stays for free) to ensure campers don't overstay their 1-2 week limit & move in.
After you get some $$ saved up, improve the utilities & add some tiny houses (old campers).
Then you hire a banjo player in overalls that just kind of appears here & there & have a Deliverance kind of theme going... well maybe not a banjo player.
No real farmable land except for the very center could be used for livestock pasturing... but that is the only access to the rest of the farm. Campground is definitely something to consider, but more business than I had planned. It would either require serious infrastructure upgrades to get septic/holding, water, and electric... or it would be just primitive camping.
I would also have to check. The road it's on is basically a one-lane road, it's about 5 miles back that road, and I'm not even sure that the electric service out the road would support a campground.
If anything, I thought about a trail/hiking park with about 5 hiker/tent sites with a couple outhouses.
And definitely a banjo.
Hunting leases, too.
I'd try to figure out what will need to be done for the future, and actually put pencil to paper to figure out what it will take to make up the cost. Unless you really want to make it a profit center - and it sounds like you do not - you'd probably be better off funding it in other ways.
Here is my thinking:
So, with our assumed $5,550 annual cost, when it becomes Curtis's responsibility in 2031, it will be approximately $7,500 a year in upkeep, and he needs to keep up with it until 2073. Assuming that he puts it in a trust, and the trust invests the money in the stock market at 7%, he'll need $153k in 2031 to keep it in perpetuity.
So... Can you come up with $153k in 10 years, including any potential inheritance? But wait! Your sister is included in this. So your personal contribution is only half that. And that is it for the rest of your life. $76k to $77k total, in 2031, if you invest it in the market.
Figure out what your parents estate is. I know they were teachers, so much of their worth may be in their pension which won't be passed on, but I'm guessing based on some other stuff you've posted that the estate will be sufficient to cover this expense and still have a lot left over. And if it isn't, or if you want to use that for other things, then start saving now for this. $5k a year gets you basically all the way there in 10 years, for your half. And your nephews will be working age, ask them to pitch in if necessary - charge anyone who stays there, $25 per night. Put it in the trust. Once the trust hits a certain value, the charge goes away. If it falls below a certain value (different than the stop contributing level, lower), then reinstate it.
Or, just pay whatever you need every year. You're a resourceful guy, you can probably come up with $5k every year by flipping cars or reverse stripping or whatever it is you want to do, and it will probably be easier than turning your retreat into a business.
EDIT: Certainly explore the hunting lease and other near-0 effort ideas. But really figure out if all of this is necessary. For a paid off property, I bet you it is not. Especially if your parents estate will be around 7 figures, which sounds like a lot, but isn't and is probably pretty close to what it is.
A few thoughts for you. I work in Forestry, and your situation has a lot of parallels to the land the company I work for owns and manages.
mtn...
I won't get into specific numbers, (although you pretty much nailed the estimate) but mom and dad's net worth is partly from their teacher's retirement but also from some old investments. My grandfather had made some investments and as he aged and lost his brain, he forgot about everything. During the execution of his estate, surprise... Some Esso stock from the 50s turned up - which of course became Exxon, then ExxonMobil, etc. There were a few of these nice surprises.
It's not like I'll be retiring on my inheritance when mom and dad pass, but let's just say it's more than you would think from teachers. And, yes, the $153k number you mentioned could be covered by the inheritance.
I don't disagree with any of your logic, I think it boils down to the crossover/trade-off point between A) is that money something I would choose to spend to keep the property on my own financial liability, and B) is there some way of making it pay for itself that doesn't require a full-on business venture like a campground or children's summer camp.
I think step one would be Nature Conservancy, local colleges, and a call to a Trust/Real Estate lawyer in WV. That's very non-GRM, but I'm just so crippled with lack of knowledge/experience in this stuff.
I feel ya. I had a serious scare with my 77yo dad getting covid in February. Then he recovered thankfully but it changed my mindset entirely that we together need to figure the estate stuff out while they're ALIVE.
In reply to Mezzanine :
This is good info. Re: hunting leases, there would be a bit of forestry/management involved but nothing that couldn't be handled while making a little profit. Specifically, there has been no forestry maintenance for decades. I think dad was trying to hold off until the money could be collected by us instead of him. Sweet, but maybe not fully thought-out. The result is that it is a very old-growth forest with very little cover. Deer don't really like it. I don't think I would retain leases if no one sees any game, but like I mentioned.... easy fix that will take a couple years..
Put it this way... I just cleared one of the ATV trails and one of the trees that I sectioned was a 14" diameter Sassafras. I didn't even know they GOT that big.
I will look up those acronyms. Thank you.
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