Relationship thoughts: reuniting with an ex (a long story)

Way back in 2016, I started dating Baltimore Girl.  She wasn't from Baltimore, but our first date was a 2 hour roadtrip to IKEA in Baltimore.  It was a wonderful 16-month relationship full of all the wrong and dysfunctional reasons.  The breakup was awful, and I was a mess for a long time.

Without going too far into it, we were neither one emotionally healthy.  I had divorced a really toxic, manipulative woman three years prior and didn't do the "work" on healing.  She had divorced a man three MONTHS prior, and he was very incapable of meeting her needs emotionally.  Long story short, Baltimore Girl and I filled an emptiness for each other that we couldn't fill for ourselves, and the Limerence and co-dependence was a recipe for a E36 M3-show.  What we thought was a perfect match ended up being each others' drug.

Fast forward 6 years to a few months ago.  We were looking for a vocal coach for one of our musicals at the theater and all of our usual suspects were tied up with high school spring musicals or otherwise not available.  I suggested Baltimore Girl (since that is her profession) and I did some soul searching before texting her.  It had been 6 years, I had done a ton of work, and had two very adult and healthy relationships in the meantime that ended with very mature realizations that we weren't right for each other and parted as friends.  I was proud of my growth.

Baltimore girl didn't end up being able to do the job, but she asked me out for coffee.  What I expected would be just a coffee and an update turned into her talking for 30 minutes about how sorry she was about how things went down.  I assured her that she was in no way responsible for my healing, and I was equally culpable in the demise.  Throughout the last few months, we have developed an amazing friendship full of honesty and genuine caring.  She mentioned that she thought about getting back together, and (honesty begets honesty) I admitted that I wanted that as well... but that I wasn't sure if it was just because of old feelings, or if I had developed a fresh, new attraction for her over the last few months.  I more or less told her that I was in love with her, but I don't need ANYTHING to change.  If she wants to remain friends, I'm perfectly happy with that, and that's actually true.  I'm just happy being a part of her and her son's life again.

Nothing has been planned, I haven't asked her out, but does anyone have advice on reuniting with an old flame?  I'm trying to think that IF something happens, I can't apply my memories of what we were to what we might become, because we're not the same people, so to speak, but this is new territory for me.  We've both done a TON of work on ourselves and I don't think we're the same persons, but the fact that we reunited as friends and might be developing  feelings for each other makes me want to do some hard research on what to look for, avoid, or think about.

PM'ing you now

The amount of personal growth I've seen from you over that time, and the ability you had to know you needed to do it, is the main reason I say go for it. I say that with the hope she's done the same, of course. You did seem to be the right people for each other, but at the wrong time. Maybe now is the right time, only one way to tell.

My advice is to treat it as brand new, there are times to discuss the past relationship, but don't start this one by talking about it every time you see each other, you're different people now, I'd treat the past as a completely different relationship. Dave and I can interrogate her and ask her intentions if needed 

I'm glad this ain't about the toxic, manipulative ex. 

In reply to Steve_Jones :

That would be ideal, and thank you for the kind words.  I'm just worried that it would be like a former addict being reintroduced to their drug of choice.  Would we move forward in a new choice?  Would we be expecting the paradigm of what we were?  I'm hoping (if it turns romantic) that we can start fresh and choose the good parts of what was to move forward with what can be.  I would have to have some pretty honest conversations with her about that.

The other consideration that sucks is that her son and I made a pretty great bond back when we dated, and now that I'm friended with him again, I don't want to be that male figure who shows up only to ghost again.  I have been teaching him how to build things and use power tools.  He was 3-4 then, and 10 now.  The fact that he remembers me fondly is cathartic. 

OHSCrifle said:

I'm glad this ain't about the toxic, manipulative ex. 

Yeah, she's on her own.  She made that bed and she can lay in it all she wants. We're very cordial and respectful of each other, but she messed up her access to me big time.

So, what it seems you're saying is, my initial reaction/response of, 'tap dat a$$" is not correct.  

​​I have some growing to do.  

All kidding aside, you're a good man and deserve a good woman.  

John Welsh said:

So, what it seems you're saying is, my initial reaction/response of, 'tap dat a$$" is not correct.  

​​I have some growing to do.  

 

All kidding aside, you're a good man and deserve a good woman.  

C'mon. You're a moderator. "tap dat a$$?" Surely you mean PIITB???

Cause I was holding back my comment of PIITB. 
 

Happy for your growth, Curtis. 

Hmmm. For me, not really enough to go on, since I don't know either party. I can only give you my own tale as a comparison.

I dated a girl once. We were wonderfully compatible...to a point. We loved each other very much. Unfortunately, she had some childhood trauma (real stuff regarding her now-absent dad) and a screwed up mother that had convinced her she was unworthy. She knew it was a problem in her head, but wasn't able to conquer it. I (correctly) saw that staying with her would also bring me down, or at least keep me from achieving better in life. I broke it off.

Some time later, I encountered her by accident at a place she was now working. SPARKS. I mean, it was palpable. Even my buddy who was with me commented on it. I've never felt that level of attraction for someone since (and I'm married to someone else these days). We cautiously agreed to get back together and 'take it slow'. 

Well, that 'slow' part didn't make it through date #1.

Anyway, I came to find out that she was not only still struggling with her childhood abuse but had also made some VERY poor decisions. I helped her out of the big one, but was so disappointed in her that I pulled the plug again. In my case, she had gotten worse, not better. She appeared better when we first met again, but the facts quickly presented themselves.

Despite all of this, I still consider her the one that I let get away even though my decisions at the time were right. I was too young and not educated to help her through her trauma. I somehow managed to avoid being a White Knight and probably ruin my life to save hers. I've built a good life that probably wouldn't have happened with her. Yet, I'm eternally missing that amazing, hard to define connection we always had. 

I've always kept to the rule that if I break up with someone, I should not go back. There was a reason I called off the relationship and it probably didn't change. She proved my point. It's hard to be objective with someone you have a real, genuine attraction to. 

Do your best to be objective, and not let your emotion take over.

And yes, I know how her story ended. She's on her second husband, though this one seems to have stuck. Live in a modest house and have one daughter. Works for a grocery store, so never achieved anything higher than when I knew her because she didn't believe she could do better. A shame, as she is extremely smart when she's not caught in her own head.

Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) said:

In reply to Steve_Jones :

That would be ideal, and thank you for the kind words.  I'm just worried that it would be like a former addict being reintroduced to their drug of choice.

Your writing sounds more like a former college binge-drinker learning responsibility.

Would we move forward in a new choice?  Would we be expecting the paradigm of what we were?  I'm hoping (if it turns romantic) that we can start fresh and choose the good parts of what was to move forward with what can be.  I would have to have some pretty honest conversations with her about that.

None of us can answer those questions. Only you can. It might be good. It might be bad. It might have good elements, but too many subtle issues to be healthy long term.

I can pretty much guarantee it will be *different* from before, but who know is what way.

The way you're presenting this - there is definitely reason to be cautious, but it sounds like you are.

Proceed slowly. Communicate. Be transparent about what you need in order to have a healthy relationship. Establish what your boundaries are, and be sure you do what you say you're going to.

Be cognizant of what *your* dangerous habits or tendencies are. Identify in advance what the start of your unhealthy patterns looks like and have a plan to step back and put your head back on straight if that starts. If you look at yourself and don't think you can push the pause button when necessary, you're not ready yet. But it sounds like you are.

In reply to Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) :

(Replying to original post)

Everybody's situation is different, of course.  But from what I see from this vantage point is that you are not the same people you once were, and in good ways.  You have grown and changed and healed to a degree (no healing, IMO, is ever "complete") and you can combine that with a brighter, more matured perspective on yourself and others.  You also have a different outlook on life and different expectations and goals than you used to.

That you are able to recognize the difference between a toxic relationship and one that simply isn't to be, and have the personal strength to step away from either, is also very encouraging.

In reply to ddavidv :

Much appreciation for the advice.  The longer story here is that I had two relationships after doing the "work" on myself, but I did have one slip, though.  I started dating a lady one week before I left on a month vacation in July.  She turned out to be a narcissist and I fell into the trap of over-giving while we were apart.  It kinda shook my confidence in the work I had done.  I know it's not a destination and I'm suddenly "fixed," but there is that fear of (metaphorically) getting a taste of alcohol after 6 years of being sober.

In reply to Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) :

You are a much healthier person. I'm proud of you, my friend.

That doesn't necessarily mean you are ready for your "old drug".

 I'm also not hearing you say much about the healthy changes SHE has made.  Is she ready to meet YOUR needs?  Is she ok with your shortcomings?  Can you speak freely about the things that made your relationship toxic?  Or does she just want a bit more of the "old drug"?

Only you can answer these things.
 

You used the words "wrong", "dysfunctional", and "co-dependent" to describe your last relationship with her. Those are serious red flags. Proceed with extreme caution. 
 

You're a good man. I suspect you and I share an Achilles heel- "over-giving".

What are the positive things about this new person that build you up, and can be foundational to a positive, healthy relationship?  (With NO regard for the past)

Also... don't fall for the kid.

BTW... I was divorced about a year and a half ago. We were separated for a year and a half prior to that. Not a single day has gone by when I haven't thought about getting back together with her.

The problem is that it's not her I want. It's our past. And I am now a healthy enough person to recognize how unhealthy I would be with her. 
 

I miss our past. We can't go back.

I now have someone in my life who builds me up and accepts me for who I am. I know the difference. 

I have always seen you as a sane voice of reason on the forum. I trust your instinct on this one. Go for it! 

Scotty Con Queso said:

I have always seen you as a sane...

I don't think I'd accuse *anyone* here of that...

Ex's are ex's for reasons. No reason to not stay friends but stay at arms length. Personal opinion. Changes or not, no.

SV reX said:

BTW... I was divorced about a year and a half ago. We were separated for a year and a half prior to that. Not a single day has gone by when I haven't thought about getting back together with her.

The problem is that it's not her I want. It's our past. And I am now a healthy enough person to recognize how unhealthy I would be with her. 
 

I miss our past. We can't go back.

I now have someone in my life who builds me up and accepts me for who I am. I know the difference. 

"I miss my old life, but not my old wife."

Gut reaction:

Its a trap!

Your worry about old addicts falling back into habits is concerning. Awareness of that is healthy and wise. Growth or not, the situation makes me itchy. 
 

That said, you don't know if you don't try. It may very well have been just bad timing on the first round. Remember how all your carburetor problems are actually ignition problems in disguise...

Have that talk. Discuss what you both want long term. Decide if you're willing to take the old risk of hurt and also add the new risk of "dammit I knew better" before making any commitment. 
 

I don't think I could do it. But I'm not you. Go slow, be intelligent, be deliberate. 

My knee-jerk reaction:  while it would make for a great movie (as long as it has at least two great car chases...) to get back together and live happily ever after, I raaaaaaarely see people really change. Sounds like you might be one of the very very few.  The chances that you both are part of this minuscule group of people seems unlikely enough to not risk the time  and the pain to find out. 

jfryjfry said:

My knee-jerk reaction:  while it would make for a great movie (as long as it has at least two great car chases...) to get back together and live happily ever after, I raaaaaaarely see people really change. Sounds like you might be one of the very very few.  The chances that you both are part of this minuscule group of people seems unlikely enough to not risk the time  and the pain to find out. 

So, I think you're right on one hand:

I dated a nasty, gas-lighting, manipulative, cheater that I had a LOT of very fun things in common with.  When I found out she was cheating, I cut ties and very much made sure the other guy found out about me.  Two years later, I ran into her at a party and all those things we had in common came back up and it was REAL EASY to think things would be different this time.  Took it slow, got back together, thought things changed...  They didn't.

But on the other hand people do "mature", and they can work on themselves.  I know for absolute certain that if I had met Mrs. Hungary before I was about 25, that no way would we have gotten together (read:  I was busy being an idiot, and she wouldn't have been interested, nor would I).  Even now, our relationship is the two of us constantly working together to keep it positive (and there have certainly been some challenges along the way). 

I know Curtis has put in the work (proud of you, buddy!), and I remember the Ikea date (berking cool!).  I would say "yes, but only if she has or is currently working on herself".

This quote by Curtis right here:  "I know it's not a destination and I'm suddenly 'fixed'..."

Speaks volumes. 

Without prompt, does she use the same sort of terminology (is that the right term?) when you talk about the past?  Can SHE lead in a conversation where SHE talks about the negative contributions to the relationship and the potential root causes?  That would be my "Go / no-go".

Something like this:

Love is a helluva drug, and it'll let the brain gloss over a lot of E36 M3.  That'll get a happy relationship started, but that E36 M3's coming back up eventually and the honeymoon period's going to be over.  What happens then is 100% up to ALL* of the people involved.

(*Chose to use "all" to include polyamorous relationships.)

SV reX said:

In reply to Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) :

You are a much healthier person. I'm proud of you, my friend.

That doesn't necessarily mean you are ready for your "old drug".

 I'm also not hearing you say much about the healthy changes SHE has made.  Is she ready to meet YOUR needs?  Is she ok with your shortcomings?  Can you speak freely about the things that made your relationship toxic?  Or does she just want a bit more of the "old drug"?

Only you can answer these things.
 

You used the words "wrong", "dysfunctional", and "co-dependent" to describe your last relationship with her. Those are serious red flags. Proceed with extreme caution. 
 

You're a good man. I suspect you and I share an Achilles heel- "over-giving".

What are the positive things about this new person that build you up, and can be foundational to a positive, healthy relationship?  (With NO regard for the past)

Also... don't fall for the kid.

Very good points.  I'm very much an overgiver.  My history has been filled with phrases like "I'm not good enough... if I only did more.... why doesn't she love me... I'm afraid to lose her..."  It's a trauma that I literally spent 6 years in therapy dealing with.

I'm fortunately far into the healing journey.  Right now, I'm totally fine if she says "nah."  In fact, if she said yes, I would question her judgment a little.  The last time she decided she wasn't healthy with me, she left, and she wasn't overly kind about it.  I think we're both suffering a little bit from mixing A with B.... we both remember how ridiculously happy we were with each other back in the day, and we're confusing it with this great, honest friendship we have now.  I think we're both curious to see if it would be "better now."  The hard truth is, perhaps the ship has sailed, but I at least found a boundary and was honest with my feelings.  If it doesn't go in that direction, so be it.

And I love that kid so much, so TOO LATE on that one.  For years I wanted to set up a little trust for him with like $1500 so that he got a little help from "uncle Curtest" with college books or something.  (See above - overgiving)  I didn't, but I truly want to be there for that kid.

In reply to Scotty Con Queso :

Thanks, Scotty.  I'm trying to focus on reason and logic instead of my groin, but I'll admit... the groin is putting up a good fight.

In reply to Scotty Con Queso :

Thanks, Scotty.  I'm trying to focus on reason and logic instead of my groin, but I'll admit... the groin is putting up a good fight.

barefootcyborg5000 said:

Gut reaction:

Its a trap!

 

Your worry about old addicts falling back into habits is concerning. Awareness of that is healthy and wise. Growth or not, the situation makes me itchy. 
 

That said, you don't know if you don't try. It may very well have been just bad timing on the first round. Remember how all your carburetor problems are actually ignition problems in disguise...

Have that talk. Discuss what you both want long term. Decide if you're willing to take the old risk of hurt and also add the new risk of "dammit I knew better" before making any commitment. 
 

I don't think I could do it. But I'm not you. Go slow, be intelligent, be deliberate. 

This is really a great metaphor.

The slow/intelligent/deliberate part is where I have trouble.  I know that's the healthy way to do it, but I'm more of a heart-on-my-sleeve person.  When I feel something, I act on it or say it.  To me, slow/intelligent is the antithesis of what I want.  I agree that it's the absolute right way that I need more experience with, but resisting sharing feelings is the opposite of my instinct.

Or, to put a finer point on it:  Heart-on-sleeve = Limerence.  Slow/intelligent/deliberate = proper way to do love.