S-10 Day 2: Shooting GM "engineers"

How to replace a turn signal switch in an '87 Volvo:

Remove 6 screws and take off steering column shroud. Remove 2 screws holding switch in. Swap 5 wire connectors.Reinstall screws and column shroud.

How to replace a turn signal switch in an '87 Chevy S10:

Take off wheel with special tool.

Get another special tool to remove lock plate. Remove c-clip.

Unplug old switch way down on the steering column. Cut off connector. Fish wires back up steering column.

Take the connector OFF the new switch. Fish wires back down the steering column. Reinstall wires in connector. Plug in.

Install new switch. Attach turn signal lever to switch. Re-attach hazard switch knob.

Compress the lock plate again. Reinstall retaining clip. Reinstall steering wheel.

If I meet that guy, I will shoot him.

probably cheaper on the assembly line

mad_machine wrote: probably cheaper on the assembly line

Oh yeah. I'd bet (even in that time) GM outsourced the whole, pre-wired, steering column assembly. Bolt in, plug in, and done. And if they had spent another $0.15 on the plastic that makes up the switch, it might last a while.

mad_machine wrote: probably cheaper on the assembly line

And more hourly work at the stealership.

N Sperlo wrote: And more hourly work at the stealership.

Pfffft. If it takes the guy at home 2hrs to fix it, figure the tech maybe gets .7.

Oh and most of those columns are best serviced out of the vehicle and with a coat hanger and duct tape.

N Sperlo wrote:

mad_machine wrote: probably cheaper on the assembly line

And more hourly work at the stealership.

Irrelevant, if I understand the business model correctly. Since the dealer is independent, GM would make more money if the part was more expensive, but the labor makes GM no additional money.

In reply to Ranger50:

Pfffft, yourself, Mr. Smarty Pants.

EvanR wrote:

N Sperlo wrote:

mad_machine wrote: probably cheaper on the assembly line

And more hourly work at the stealership.

Irrelevant, if I understand the business model correctly. Since the dealer is independent, GM would make more money if the *part* was more expensive, but the labor makes GM no additional money.

If manufacturers don't take care of the dealerships, they loose the brick-and-mortar end point of their distribution chain.....most people want to test drive a car instead of just buying it over the internet.

labor intensive repairs can help keep the dealerships afloat

when installing the Grant GT wheel I managed to brake the horn thing (that the wire clips to and contacts to the column)... I about killed my thumbs when removing that stupid C-clip to remove that locking plate...

also had to replace the starter switch (er so I thought... turned out to be the lock cylinder)... more or less just have to pull the entire column to get to it...

but for the most part everything on that truck is dead simple... just a few things are a PITA to get to... and yes the interior is made super cheap... just like all GM's of the era...

my s10 is in fairly good condition considering it was a city water truck for the first 10 years of it's life then a farm truck till a bit after my grandpa in-law died...

It's the same guy who designed how to change a battery on the Lumina.

http://www.w-body.com/showthread.php/33097-1995-chevy-lumina-battery-removal

How fast was it going when you braked the horn ring ?

Sorry, couldn't resist.

iceracer wrote: How fast was it going when you braked the horn ring ? Sorry, couldn't resist.

awr ue makan fun ov mi speeling? lol

The connector will slip up and down the column if you remove the column support from the dash. Done a million of them.

Aside from that, with all the locking/security stuff in the GM column, every 10 year old kid in the hood knows how to steal them. The Volvo isn't going anywhere without either a tow truck, a drill and an hour, or a spare key.

Wait, you're saying a company that builds jet engines and earth moving equipment might have had better ideas about building cars than the company that built home loans and the Vega?

Streetwiseguy wrote: The connector will slip up and down the column if you remove the column support from the dash. Done a million of them.

I believe you. However, not having done one of these before, my amateur brain decided that popping the 10 wires out of the "harmonica" connector, passing them through the column, and re-inserting them into the connector was the sensible choice, so that's what I did.

the tools to do it are cheap- a steering wheel puller and a c clip remover will set you back about $10..

first you spend 20 minutes taking the column out of the car, 5 minutes taking stuff apart with the wheel puller and lock plate remover and another 5 minutes taking the original turn signal switch out- then you spend about 5 minutes fishing the new wiring thru the column and another 5-10 minute putting the locking plate and what not back together.. then putting the column back in is a 10-15 minute job since you know where everything goes..

since you've got it apart that far, you might as well jam a torx socket down in there and snug up the tilt mechanism (if it's a tilt column, of course..).

EvanR wrote: If I meet *that guy*, I will shoot him.

How old are you? The guy who designed that part back in 1984 probably retired from GM a decade ago, never intending that anyone would try to service a part on a 24 year old truck that's worthless.

Great that you could on a Volvo- shortly after the car was bought, they were in such great financial shape that they were bought by Ford.

alfadriver wrote:

EvanR wrote: If I meet *that guy*, I will shoot him.

How old are you? The guy who designed that part back in 1984 probably retired from GM a decade ago, never intending that anyone would try to service a part on a 24 year old truck that's worthless. Great that you could on a Volvo- shortly after the car was bought, they were in such great financial shape that they were bought by Ford.

1984? that same basic design goes way back to at least the early 60's, with slight changes made about every decade or so to add and relocate things..

to be fair, it's a rare thing for those switches to go bad, so it's not like it's a part of your yearly maintenence routine... which is exactly the opposite of the 95 and newer Cavaliers and Sunfires that like to eat turn signal/headlight/cruise control switches like they are candy- it's a good thing they made them easy to change..

EvanR wrote:

Streetwiseguy wrote: The connector will slip up and down the column if you remove the column support from the dash. Done a million of them.

I believe you. However, not having done one of these before, my amateur brain decided that popping the 10 wires out of the "harmonica" connector, passing them through the column, and re-inserting them into the connector was the sensible choice, so that's what I did.

Yeah. Not dissing you, just wanted you to know for next time.

Sound slike the s10 is a breeze compared to my Vette ign switch replacement. Have to remove the upper dash panel, but first remove the passenger side dash face. Then unscrew thr center gauge cluster. Remove the cover under the column. Drop column, remove driver side dash panel after snaking hand up to release the speedo cable. Unplug each bulb holder. Unscrew ignition switch from under column support and replace being sure to get linkage from lock cylinder hooked in and adjusted. Refittal is reversal of removal--still in process! Uggh!

yup ignition switch replacement isn't bad at all on the s10... worst part was pulling the wheel lock without the proper tool... that being said i'm pretty sure the one I installed is the 3rd one on the truck... there was TONS of brass shavings down in the old lock cyl

EvanR wrote: Oh yeah. I'd bet (even in that time) GM outsourced the whole, pre-wired, steering column assembly. Bolt in, plug in, and done.And if they had spent another $0.15 on the plastic that makes up the switch, it might last a while.

And there is part of your answer...
$.15 x 5,000,000 over 10 years = real money. Now do that for almost every part on the truck....

One thing I have learned working in the auto industry is that very few engineers that work directly for the car company design anything. They are project managers that oversee the engineering by a supplier. The GM guy was likely watching over all truck columns in use that year. They had to make sure the newbie engi-nerds hired by the sub-sub-sub contractor that was hired by the sub-sub contractor under license of the sub-contractor met the design goals. I would bet the goals were 1.Cheap 2.Make vehicle turn when steering wheel is turned. Prefer to turn in same direction of the steering wheel.