Sky_Render wrote:Osterkraut wrote:Yes, see the second paragraph in my post.Sky_Render wrote: The University of Maryland is a very good school. And only $9,000 a year in tuition is a small student loan to pay off afterwards (relatively speaking, of course). Go Terps!That's 36,000, minimum, in debt... to be handled with an English degree. That's not a wise investment.
I was agreeing with you.
Ian F wrote: English major... When she graduates she's going to need all the financial help she can get. I'd remind the ex of that...
AMEN! She's pursuing something that has little to no opportunity for income. So she should spend little to no money in that pursuit. She's going to NEED some kind of graduate degree to be able to make a living, so save the money for that.
Datsun1500 wrote:mikeatrpi wrote: Have you asked Chicago to pony up some cash or risk losing a stellar future alumnus?I can tell you they won't. 3300 were admitted out of 25,000 applicants. You can't pony up the cash, someone on the wait list will.
Bummer. It worked for me... at an engineering school though.
DILYSI Dave wrote:Ian F wrote: English major... When she graduates she's going to need all the financial help she can get. I'd remind the ex of that...AMEN! She's pursuing something that has little to no opportunity for income. So she should spend little to no money in that pursuit. She's going to NEED some kind of graduate degree to be able to make a living, so save the money for that.
True enough. I would be more concerned with explaining that where you go to school might not be as important as what you go to school for.
My oldest is a gifted pianist and generally excellent musician who will someday need to face the reality that dad isn't paying for a degree in fun past times so he will need a job, a more lucrative degree program or a free ride. I don't relish the day I have to crush dreams but better that than have both of us broke for life.
Honestly, if someone is thinking of majoring in English, I'd tell them to not bother going to college. Their career prospects are about the same without the degree, and they wouldn't have tens of thousands in debt. (This assumes merely a Bachelor's degree.)
On the other hand, if she can get a free ride to college...
Osterkraut wrote: I was agreeing with you.
Oh, sorry. 
Sky_Render wrote: Honestly, if someone is thinking of majoring in English, I'd tell them to not bother going to college. Their career prospects are about the same without the degree, and they wouldn't have tens of thousands in debt. (This assumes merely a Bachelor's degree.) On the other hand, if she can get a free ride to college...Osterkraut wrote: I was agreeing with you.Oh, sorry.
Not a problem, I could have phrased it better!
JThw8 wrote:HiTempguy wrote: What you say in the last comment says it all: "she is not very appreciative". F. THAT. NOISE.And Im going to address this separately because it deserves it. I know not of what age or generation you are and I'll go into my old man get off my lawn mode for a minute. This is exactly the kind of BS that many (certainly not all) of the younger generation spew that kills me. Yes she worked very hard, and that very hard work paid off in a full scholarship to a good school, but its not the school she wants. To not appreciate the opportunity in front of her is no better than that video that made the rounds where the teen girl cried over the brand new car she got for her birthday because it was blue and she wanted red. Some people work very hard and never get a car, or a free college education. So yes I do expect her to be respectful and appreciative of the things which she is given AND earns in life. It is a lesson I will continue to teach her and feel no guilt or shame for doing. I will never let her say berkeley that noise, and act like a spoiled brat.
Yeah. At least you are not alone. He busted my balls for the exact same thing, i.e. not being able to defecate mounds of cash, expecting my kid to work for what she gets and not being able to cater to her whims.
Yes I know, the subject of what she studies has long been a point of contention. But this is her passion and she realizes that it pretty much relegates her to being a teacher post college.
She is realistic about the earning potential, perhaps with the proper exposure in college she'll come around to other ideas. If not then I just need a better retirement plan because relying on the kid to take care of me won't work ;)
Curmudgeon wrote:JThw8 wrote:Yeah. At least you are not alone. He busted my balls for the exact same thing, i.e. not being able to defecate mounds of cash, expecting my kid to work for what she gets and not being able to cater to her whims.HiTempguy wrote: What you say in the last comment says it all: "she is not very appreciative". F. THAT. NOISE.And Im going to address this separately because it deserves it. I know not of what age or generation you are and I'll go into my old man get off my lawn mode for a minute. This is exactly the kind of BS that many (certainly not all) of the younger generation spew that kills me. Yes she worked very hard, and that very hard work paid off in a full scholarship to a good school, but its not the school she wants. To not appreciate the opportunity in front of her is no better than that video that made the rounds where the teen girl cried over the brand new car she got for her birthday because it was blue and she wanted red. Some people work very hard and never get a car, or a free college education. So yes I do expect her to be respectful and appreciative of the things which she is given AND earns in life. It is a lesson I will continue to teach her and feel no guilt or shame for doing. I will never let her say berkeley that noise, and act like a spoiled brat.
I'm a parent, I love my kid, at the end of the day I think we'd all do whatever we could for our kid and if I had a spare 160k sitting around I'd be sorely tempted to make her dreams come true.
But ONLY because for the most part she does work for everything she gets and she does value it. The whole idea of her loosing that value system and becoming one more of the hipster/slacker populace that feels the world owes them something would make me feel like a greater failure as a parent than just not being willing or able to pay for an overpriced education.
God bless anyone who can give their kids everything their heart desires, I only hope they give them the important lessons in life too.
I lived in NY during high school.
I went to Michigan (Flint, possibly the worst city in the US) for college.
My Dad helped me move there the first time (subsequent times were up to me). He drove with me, in a separate car, sat through one orientation event, and said goodbye that morning.
I'll never go back to Flint. Ever. it was terrible.
I am SOOOO glad I went. Not as far as your distance, but it's good to make them behave like adults. I had to do everything. Nobody to fix my crap, nobody to pay my bills, nobody to lock my doors, force me to study, etc.
I have a cousin who went to a college 15 minutes from home. She loved it because she could do her laundry at home, eat lunch with Mom, it was lovely.
She's 27. She still does her laundry at home. She works at a grocery store as some low level 'head cashier' something or other with her graduate degree.
Still has lunch w/ Mom!
JThw8 wrote:Curmudgeon wrote:I'm a parent, I love my kid, at the end of the day I think we'd all do whatever we could for our kid and if I had a spare 160k sitting around I'd be sorely tempted to make her dreams come true. But ONLY because for the most part she does work for everything she gets and she does value it. The whole idea of her loosing that value system and becoming one more of the hipster/slacker populace that feels the world owes them something would make me feel like a greater failure as a parent than just not being willing or able to pay for an overpriced education. God bless anyone who can give their kids everything their heart desires, I only hope they give them the important lessons in life too.JThw8 wrote:Yeah. At least you are not alone. He busted my balls for the exact same thing, i.e. not being able to defecate mounds of cash, expecting my kid to work for what she gets and not being able to cater to her whims.HiTempguy wrote: What you say in the last comment says it all: "she is not very appreciative". F. THAT. NOISE.And Im going to address this separately because it deserves it. I know not of what age or generation you are and I'll go into my old man get off my lawn mode for a minute. This is exactly the kind of BS that many (certainly not all) of the younger generation spew that kills me. Yes she worked very hard, and that very hard work paid off in a full scholarship to a good school, but its not the school she wants. To not appreciate the opportunity in front of her is no better than that video that made the rounds where the teen girl cried over the brand new car she got for her birthday because it was blue and she wanted red. Some people work very hard and never get a car, or a free college education. So yes I do expect her to be respectful and appreciative of the things which she is given AND earns in life. It is a lesson I will continue to teach her and feel no guilt or shame for doing. I will never let her say berkeley that noise, and act like a spoiled brat.
I love mine dearly, too. I see my #1 priority as teaching her self reliance, that will take her much further in life than any degree. I have seen too many girls who got married early (i.e. went straight from relying on Mom and Dad to relying on some guy) then wound up on their own through death/divorce etc and they had not a damn clue how to manage their own lives.
I feel your pain. Katie got accepted to her first choice school, but once they came back with no scholarship $$ and a price per year of nearly $50,000 for a Bachelor of Arts degree, we had to tell her no. (Actually, I told her, "For $200,000 your degree should qualify you to open an abdomen, not work at Dillard's.")
She is now trying to decide between her second choice, a small private school that is much cheaper, and a state school that is huge and priced extremely right. Both have pros and cons, and we can afford either with what we have saved for her, but we're all just ready to have it settled. Whenever we bring up the subject, she veers between acting like my cat when we try to put it in the carrier (all legs and claws extended across the opening) and acting like she could move out tomorrow and get on with whatever life throws at her.
We will survive this. At least, someone will!
Margie
HiTempGuy makes me hate my generation. 
Marjorie Suddard wrote: Actually, I told her, "For $200,000 your degree should qualify you to open an abdomen, not work at Dillard's."
Very well-stated!
Curmudgeon wrote:JThw8 wrote:Yeah. At least you are not alone. He busted my balls for the exact same thing, i.e. not being able to defecate mounds of cash, expecting my kid to work for what she gets and not being able to cater to her whims.HiTempguy wrote: What you say in the last comment says it all: "she is not very appreciative". F. THAT. NOISE.And Im going to address this separately because it deserves it. I know not of what age or generation you are and I'll go into my old man get off my lawn mode for a minute. This is exactly the kind of BS that many (certainly not all) of the younger generation spew that kills me. Yes she worked very hard, and that very hard work paid off in a full scholarship to a good school, but its not the school she wants. To not appreciate the opportunity in front of her is no better than that video that made the rounds where the teen girl cried over the brand new car she got for her birthday because it was blue and she wanted red. Some people work very hard and never get a car, or a free college education. So yes I do expect her to be respectful and appreciative of the things which she is given AND earns in life. It is a lesson I will continue to teach her and feel no guilt or shame for doing. I will never let her say berkeley that noise, and act like a spoiled brat.
I remember that thread and facepalmed hard then, too.
Can someone buy me a car so i can get to work, too?
Another thought: What are the stipulations of her full ride, and her deal at MD? It sounds like there aren't many. You should encourage her (by which I mean push her) to take on a minor, or preferably a second major, in something that employers look for. Marketing, Computer Science, Business, Accounting, Finance, Mathematics, Economics, Management, Insurance, etc.
I just graduated from the #3 school for education in the country (I do not know who ranks or how they do it, but we're consistently up there) and a girl I know graduated top of her class and is teaching in podunk bumfuk earning nothing, even for a teacher. This is not unusual. Another is working in a call center, and another still at Menards. But another was a dual major--Business Admin and English Education. He was working in a good job at a Fortune 400 company for about 14 months before he got the job he wanted--a teacher. But he will always have a leg up, and a sense of security.
Even if your daughter never does anything with it, it is better to have it than not. And it will make it easier to get into a grad program later if she decides that teaching is not for her. Especially if it is going to be free, or nearly free. If she can stretch those 4 years into 5 (with the second major, not with just 1) for free (or nearly free anyways) then she should absolutely take the victory lap.
I graduated in 4 years with a major in Mathematics, and minors in Economics and Business admin. Hindsight being 20-20, I could have been out in 4.5 with majors in Math and Business, and a minor in Econ. I wish I had.
Also:
Sky_Render wrote: HiTempGuy makes me hate my generation.
He's adopted......err, I mean Canadian? 
In reply to mtn:
I 'd +1
$160,000 - $200,000 dollars in debt upon Graduation from U of C, with what kind of degree? A law degree means that she is one of 50,000 new layers competing for less than 25,000 jobs that suck and pay an average of $62,000. A business degree? A medical degree? Plan on more college and more debt and even fewer job opportunities. And nothing against U of C, but for your undergraduate degree, it's not Ivy Leauge enough to matter. Go for the free degree, then if you are doing well and have a VERY CLEAR career path established, then pay for a brand-name school for your Masters and Doctorate.
mtn wrote: Another thought: What are the stipulations of her full ride, and her deal at MD? It sounds like there aren't many. You should encourage her (by which I mean push her) to take on a minor, or preferably a second major, in something that employers look for. Marketing, Computer Science, Business, Accounting, Finance, Mathematics, Economics, Management, Insurance, etc.
Sadly I've gone down that road with her. She was also offered a full ride to U of Texas but turned it down because they didn't have the English program she wanted. What they did have was an amazing (IMO) and marketable program in internet technologies and writing. So it combined 2 things she's very good at writing, and technology (kid is a whiz with coding although she doesn't like it) as well as some graphic arts which is another love of hers. Honestly, reading the material it sounded like they made the course just for her. But she wanted nothing to do with it.
If I have one complaint, which I do kindly share with her, is she is shying away from anything which will require moderate to heavy math loads. She's good in math, has taken everything through Calculus and passed with flying colors, but like her old man she hates the stuff and will do anything to avoid it. I think she is missing out on the chance to push herself in her course of study because of this.
If my money were on the line I'd be a little more adamant about it, but her money, her choice.
Economics then, or Business. A student like her will be able to put 2 hours or less a week [outside of class] and pass with flying colors and have a second fricken major. She can thank you later.
A cheap insurance policy, especially if the scholorship would cover an extra semester or two.
EDIT:
JThw8 wrote: If I have one complaint, which I do kindly share with her, is she is shying away from anything which will require moderate to heavy math loads. She's good in math, has taken everything through Calculus and passed with flying colors,
Economics doesn't do the math. They show the math and draw conclusions from it. Business guys can't (or don't) do the math either (slight asterisk for finance). Marketing has no math that I couldn't do after the 6th grade.
I assume she has some AP credit from Calculus? Then she'd have to take at most 2 classes of math in her entire career even for a Business degree.
The school culture at U of Arizona and UChicago is going to be drastically different. One of the biggest party schools in the country and a school that has the reputation of where fun goes to die...lol. Well if she ends up going to UofA and if it is anything like University of Illinois, hope that she maintains her good work ethic.
This is a quote from my schools facebook "Confessions" page, you can anonymously confess things for the internet to enjoy. Unfortunate reality for some people:
In high school I was a really strong girl with very high values and morals. Then I came here expecting to keep them all and they went down the drain. I drink and black out constantly. I hook-up with guys and go home with them. I don't strive for that A and instead am content with a B or C and I skip class. Sometimes I feel like I'm really letting myself down and that my old self would be really disappointed in who I am today.
I've seen this happen to quite a few of my classmates in college too, some were also kids from my highschool
^^I wouldn't worry too much about that. Drink with her one night, and keep going, and find out where her limit is. Tell her to stick to her limit, don't ever push it.
To take this thread on a tangent, the best tips I can give about that type of thing:
- Don't ever drink the jungle juice
- Don't ever drink anything you didn't see them make, and pour
- Stick with beer. Safer all around.
- Date Rape is real. Keep your drink covered. Bottles and cans make that an easy task
- Know when to leave a party
- If the party has spilled outside, it was time to leave 30 minutes ago. It will get busted
- If you can hear the party from a block away, it will get busted
- Beer before liquor, never been sicker
- While you are drinking, drink a water after every drink--or at least chug that many waters when you're done. It won't keep you sober, but it will keep the hangover manageable.
- She was asking for it by her lack of clothes is not an excuse, but it sure does encourage idiots.
/wet blanket.
If I had kids I would not cosign a loan or pay anything towards their college education unless they were going for something STEM.
You have better job prospects in the least math intensive Env. Sci program than you do in the best English, Phil, or History program.
An engineer can become a writer, a writer cannot become an engineer.
My degree (Geography) got just enough science to gather some interest from potential employers, but the title is still viewed negatively by anyone mildly related to engineering or "actual" science.
FWIW, my step niece? (I dunno, all that stuff confuses me) got a pretty decent scholarship ride and was going to study graphic arts. Required (yes, required!) a ~$2k Apple laptop. Has to live on campus and buy one of those damn meal plans.
After the first semester she decides to CHANGE MAJORS 
and go after a degree in education (now wants to be a teacher). EVERYTHING went out the window. Last I heard, the scholarship got cut by something like 25% and she was lucky to keep that much.
Curmudgeon wrote: Has to live on campus and buy one of those damn meal plans.
This is fairly standard practice, like it or not. Usually for folks somewhat local they can get out of it, the same goes for married, military, and other exceptions. Don't expect to get out of it though, and yes, it is a complete ripoff.
The dorms don't upset me all that much--for me, it worked out to about $600 a month which isn't bad if you consider that cable, internet, every single utility, cleaning, and other perks you don't think about are all included in that price. It also forces you to make friends.
The thing that really grinds my gears is the required meal plan. I bought the cheapest available meal plan which afforded me, on average, 2.4 meals a day. Considering the amount that I'd sleep through breakfast, or grab some fast food, or simply have Ramen or Easy mac, that is eating a lot of meals. Keep in mind that this is the cheapest meal plan.
My meals worked out to be $13.xx a meal. I could eat out every single meal, eat better and healthier, and I'd be saving about $9 a day. That is ridiculous.
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