WAY off topic - TV tuner cards

Ok folks - my wife and I are shuffling things about some, and we're going to end up with one less TV and one more computer/monitor. Easy - watch TV on the computer, right?

Background: my wife and I don't care much about TV. Our monitor is newer, big enough, and fine - except it displays what's on my computer, not what's on my Dish.

I want good ways to display the non HD (although an upgrade path to HD is desirable with this hardware) DishTV on my computer monitor. The monitor only has VGA and DVI in and my DishTV rx has coax out (one of those fancy dual boxes, so this viewing unit would get the coaxial antenna thing) so I am pretty sure that means I need some sort of box to go between the monitor and the coax.

1: Is the cheapest way to do this to buy a TV tuner card? I have also seen stand alone boxes that would omit the computer, but I would guess the price is worse than just the card for a PC. 1a: What TV tuner card? I have heard ATI 650 and saber 2020 for picture quality, and both are inexpensive enough (less than half of an equivalent TV) to make it worth my while. 1b: what stand alone box thingie?

2: The DVR feature of these cards/software would be confusing because out DishTV thing already does that - and already has a remote to flip channels and everything - all I really want this to do is show me TV on my computer from a coax cable. If you could tell me there way an easy way to share the DVR feature between the Dish Rx and the PC, and maybe even a way to move recorded shows back and forth, that's would be the cats meow, but hey - I dunno what's out there.

How 'bout it PC geeks of the GRM universe, what say you?

Thanks -Brian

I don't know of specific cards, but my ex-gf had one that came with her computer (a Vista machine) and it ran through Windows Media Center. It was fantastic--better than a regular television hooked up through a cable box. It was a huge leap forward from the one I had on my Compaq Presario (Intel Celeron 333 MHz).

I am thinking that you don't need the tuner box anymore and that this can be returned to the Dish Network folks since your computer will have all the hardware and software to convert the signal.

Keep us posted on what you do. I will probably follow suit soon. My card, however, will need to have inputs for RCA or Component cables since I will likely try to play X-Box 360 through it.

Buy on Monday online. It's electronic Monday--like Black Friday, only funner for geeks and online shoppers.

Check out www.byopvr.com

I'd say it's time for a new iMac with the HDMI connection and HD Dish. You absolutely cannot live a full and rich life without HD and DVR!

And life without a Mac is simply, well, not as good!

OK, let's establish some base rules:

No new hardware except for this tuner card. If I had to buy other hardware, I'd just buy a TV set. Unless there is some super silver bullet under $100.

No HD for now - promise me

If it won't work on my current XP box or Linux then it's probably not going to cut the mustard unless someone wants to hand me a new OS.

I have another TV downstairs (2 total) so that still needs the Dish box - and that box runs both TVs - so that stays.

I was planning on buying Monday - but have no earthly idea what to buy!

I'm one of those weirdos who doesn't even own a TV set. Instead, I've got a TV tuner card in my PC and watch TV (well, mostly Top Gear if I can be bothered) that way.

I've got a cheap-ish Hauppauge, the software takes a little getting used to but they have been manufacturing TV tuner cards since the year dot which means that they work under pretty much any OS out there. Mine runs under XP and "just works".

+1 on the Hauppauge card

which one? They make like 34,652

Get the Hauppauge internal card with the IR Blaster and remote package, the HVR1600 would suffice as that will pick up over the air HD signals and it should pickup FM stations as well.

http://hauppauge.com/site/products/data_hvr1600.html

Use the IR Blaster to control the Dish box (that way you can do automated DVR stuff from the PC)

all that is left is to use a Media Center style program to control the Tuner card. Hauppauge will provide a utility to use the tuner card, but it is really basic. A media center front end is a much better solution.

If you don't already have Windows XP Media Center Edition or Vista/7 Premium (comes with Media Center), there are several free alternatives available online. I like Media Portal, but Boxee/XBMC are great alternatives. MythTV is the heavy hitter for Linux and Hauppauge does a pretty good job of supporting IX.

For the absolute cheapest deal, get an older Hauppauge PCI TV card like this:

http://hauppauge.com/site/products/data_goplus.html

or this:

http://cgi.ebay.com/WinTV-Hauppauge-NTSC-44801-REV-D110-TV-Tuner-PCI-card_W0QQitemZ330380537971QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item4cec36f073

A buddy gave me a couple for free, so now I have 4 tuner cards in my TV server. Works like the card above but without the HD capability, but the output of your Dish box isn't HD and the rest can be replaced using eBay.

Instead of the Hauppauge remote and IR Blaster of the first solution, add a cheap HP USB Media Center Remote, it should come with an IR Blaster to control the satellite box and the remote sensor can be attached to the bottom of the monitor.

http://cgi.ebay.com/HP-Media-Center-MCE-USB-Infrared-Receiver-IR-EMITTER_W0QQitemZ120498830057QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item1c0e4a3ae9

and:

http://cgi.ebay.com/HP-Media-Center-PC-Remote-Control-5187-4401_W0QQitemZ160382905728QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item255790ed80

I also add a simerec IR power switch to the main power switch on the PC.

http://simerec.com/PCS-2.html

Combined with an auto-logon account and a media center front end that starts automatically, you'll have a pretty easy to use solution that just works.

Wow turboswede - nice writeup.

Now for the inevitable questions:

Is the $85 new 1600 going to look any better on my 22" monitor than an older one, or a used obsolete one?

How does the remote work with the DVR system from Dish? Is it line-of-sight? We only have one box, and it's on another floor and everything.

What is an HVR? I have heard of PVR, but I don't fully understand the difference.

I don't really care that much about over the air signals, just the stuff coming out of the coax from my dish. I guess that is technically "over the air" but you know what I meant. Does that change the requirements, or is this just a nice perk in case I want an antenna later on?

Thanks again!

-Brian

Not a problem, always glad to share my geekiness with others.

Not going to be much difference in picture quality between the two since they both would be using standard def signals. The 1600 can show you HD quality signals and record over the air HD, but that's it.

Hmm, didn't realize the box was on another floor. That complicates things a little. How did you change channels with the old TV solution?

Okay, assuming that you have to change the channel at the Dish box, this is going to get technical. This how I would solve a situation like the above: I'd probably use MediaPortal in a Server/Client solution. Buy, build, etc a cheap P4 or better box with 1gb of RAM and WinXP (doesn't even need a decent video card, but it helps with troubleshooting).

I use these as TV Clients with ATI HD 3450 video cards in them, work great and they were cheap! http://cgi.ebay.com/HP-D530-SFF-Pentium-4-3GHz-512MB-80GB-Desktop-Computer_W0QQitemZ200412048059QQcmdZViewItemQQptZDesktop_PCs?hash=item2ea97d2abb

If you're going to run one or two tuner cards, it will work great. I have a d530 tower that I use as a server, but that's because I knew I needed the expansion slots. My local hospital flooded the local market with them, so they were extremely cheap.

If you really want a small form factor, build a couple ITX systems.

This will be a TV server to buddy up with the Dish box where ever that lives currently. Slap a tuner card or two in the TV server and configure it to use an IR Blaster to control the Dish box. The IR Blaster is merely a line of sight IR solution that sticks to the front of the cable/sat box and has a cable running to the tuner card/IR bar

Once the TV server is up and running and you can control the Dish box to get to all of your channels, you can install MediaPortal as a TV client on the machine you want to watch TV from (downstairs, garage, etc) Connect the Server and Client with either Wireless N or a good wired network (I tried Wireless G and it wouldn't quite keep up, YMMV)

Configure the TV client to autologon (I created a generic account for this) and set the software to start automatically. I also set the machine to hibernate when I hit the power button and for the software to restart and it becomes fairly quick to get up and running.

You can of course copy all of your music and pictures onto the server and have access to those files through MediaPortal.

HVR is just their way of designating that the card is HD capable.

Just a nice perk for later on.

I didn't read all of the posts above, but judging by the length of the posts, I think y'all are making this harder than it has to be.

Changing channels on the Dish box is done by RF (assuming you've got the same or similar box to what I have). The two-room Dish receivers come with two remotes, an IR (mine has green trim) for the room where the box is and an RF (mine has blue trim) for where the box isn't. There shouldn't be any need to get an additional remote for channel changing.

All you need for your PC is a tuner card that you can put on whatever channel Output 2 of your Dish receiver is set to. (This is configurable somewhere in the menus--mine is currently channel 60). I'd get whatever the cheapest Hauppage you can find is (assuming you're running under XP). If you want to run under Linux, make sure you find one that has Linux drivers available.

If all you're doing is watching TV, that's all you need. If you think you might want to use some sort of PC-DVR software, get a card that has hardware encoding, otherwise, you'll really hammer your PC processor when recording.

That was the info I was missing. I don't have Dish and have never used it, so that turns the light on for me. I agree with the lawyer (shudder) then and go back to the KISS solution.

turboswede wrote: I agree with the lawyer (shudder) then and go back to the KISS solution.

There's no need to shudder. Agreeing with a lawyer never hurts, except maybe your wallet, but that's the fundamental nature of interacting with a lawyer in the first place.

billy3esq wrote:

turboswede wrote: I agree with the lawyer (shudder) then and go back to the KISS solution.

There's no need to shudder. Agreeing with a lawyer never hurts, except maybe your wallet, but that's the fundamental nature of interacting with a lawyer in the first place.

Luckily, I'm spending someone else's money....

So a cheap H---- card is going to give me the same quality as the $$$ H---- card? I was previously planning on using the RF Dish remote - it works great. I don't even care too much about the DVR part of the deal, because I already have it through Dish and it works OK. I would be looking for the computer to simply do the converting work, plus be a computer should I require it to be. I already have the computer, and don't intend to change it, or else I'd just buy a TV. It's a shuttle XPC box with Athlon 3400+ with 512 megs of ram. I do not want to tough the box - if I do, it's worth buying a TV instead and selling the parts from the computer and the monitor. Something of ebay for $35 bucks or so sounds great, though. Anything to look for from H--- as far as picture quality or generational differences?

Your picture quality is going to be limited by the NTSC signal coming down the coax. By definition it can't be any better than a good analog TV broadcast. The card isn't really going to matter all that much. Any quality card (i.e., any of the Hauppage line) will be fine.

Because you have a DVR in your satellite receiver, there's no reason to use DVR software on the PC except that you could then put the video on an iPod, burn a DVD, take it with you on a laptop, create a huge media server archive, etc.. All of those are difficult to impossible with the Dish DVR alone. If you have no desire to do any of those things (which you never mentioned), there's no reason to worry much about it.

If you were going to do those things, they all require re-encoding the analog signal coming into the card. Having hardware encoding on the card would mean your PC could effectively do other things while recording. If you didn't have hardware encoding, your current CPU would be unable to do anything else, and, depending on the encoding software, might not even be able to keep up with 30fps video.