In reply to bgkast (Forum Supporter) :
Rear lockers are available on the 3rd gen 4Runner and the 2nd gen Xterra.You're right about doing cool stuff without them. I had my unlocked 4runner all over death valley with no issues. I only had to use it once on a trail in Northern California when I was being intentionally not careful.
I doubt you'd fit a sequoia on the TAT passes here in colorado. You can take the easy green routes instead with it but what's the fun in that?
The TAT East of Colorado is boring. The tat from here west is the fun part.
if you can afford one the 4Runner is probably your best choice.
i owned a gx470 from 39k to 127k miles. Until 112k miles it had the vaunted Toyota reliability. For the next 15k miles I was constantly having to work on it.
i sold it when the steering rack started to leak, I was done wrenching on it
i have a 99 Land Cruiser so onlt the center tcase lock and it has 430k miles on it. I paid 6k for it but it had been dealer maintained until 410k miles.
80 series LCs carry a pretty hefty parts premium if I remember correctly. Especially for interior bits and pieces. They do deserve their mechanical reliability reputation.
I will admit that they're pretty fun to beat about in the desert with just an Old Man Emu kit.
docwyte said:I doubt you'd fit a sequoia on the TAT passes here in colorado. You can take the easy green routes instead with it but what's the fun in that?
Because of the width (track width)? That was a concern I had about Sequoias. Land Cruisers have the same issue.
The Pathfinder, Xterra, and 4 runner are all significantly better in this area.
My Landcruiser that I posted a picture of earlier in this thread is everything that Toyota stands for. It was a halo vehicle that cost just short of 50k dollars back in 97 when it was new (I have the window sticker). Toyota cut no corners on that truck. Even without lockers, all of them have a transfer case lock. Mine has Old Man Emu suspension added to give a bit of lift and a good ride.
Like the fellow above said, they do carry a premium on parts prices. Mine is 100 percent mechanically but I should probably spend a couple of thousand on it to address some non mechanical issues. The windows go up and down slowly. The door mirrors jiggle over bumps. Some of the weatherstrip and trim pieces are looking haggard. Stuff like that. Nothing to stop off road ability or affect reliability but it does illustrate that the years take somewhat of a toll on the cosmetic bits even as the truck still delivers 100 percent performance. At this point I'm just not feeling spending any money on it to address those things though.
In reply to ProDarwin :
Width and Length. The parts in western CO are tight. A 4 door wrangler is big on those trails. Can you make it in something bigger, of course you can but it can get a bit tedious when have to 20 point a turn where me in my 2 door jeep 3 pointed it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n1yW9CUuogc&t=529s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=croIsbI4kt8&t=6s and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qlB0TR33Kxc to give you some ideas.
If the pathfinder is in play, don’t forget about the Infiniti QX-4.
Other ideas that I’ve heard are pretty excellent off road - but I do not know anything about this, just what I read on the internet:
bmw88rider (Forum Supporter) said:In reply to ProDarwin :
Width and Length. The parts in western CO are tight. A 4 door wrangler is big on those trails. Can you make it in something bigger, of course you can but it can get a bit tedious when have to 20 point a turn where me in my 2 door jeep 3 pointed it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n1yW9CUuogc&t=529s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=croIsbI4kt8&t=6s and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qlB0TR33Kxc to give you some ideas.
Honestly, its comforting that they show a berkeleying Raptor making it through Black Bear Pass, because it is significantly larger than anything else discussed in this thread. Man some of those descents on that trail look like serious code brown for me. I am afraid of heights.
No experience, but I've read the Xterras are very capable off-road. You can get one much cheaper than the 4Runner. With the automatic you have to be careful than you don't get to steep angle of attack or the auto transmission pickup becomes uncovered and it will ruin the trans. And those transmissions don't like being run too hot.
Xterra is as capable as anything mentioned here. That was my 1st 4x4. Ran that all over west TX and the Big Bend region with it and had a ton of fun. Just upgraded to a 2 door JL Rubicon for the front locker and just being smaller. I loved the Xterra but the Jeep is in another world.
If you do come out this way ProDarwin, Let me know. I'll be out in Ouray July 1st-3rd doing some wheeling.
Will do, but I don't think its happening anytime soon. Just doing some brainstorming.
for Toyota money I would buy a really nice second gen Trooper and a JDM diesel for it.
Land Rover discovery, because. I haven't seen it mentioned elsewhere in here. I bet you could get one with a broken v8 for very cheap, then import a 300tdi engine and get about 40mpg.
Pretty comfortable on road, capable off road. Pretty good parts affordability really, even if you have to resort to getting stuff direct from the UK.
ProDarwin said:John Welsh (Moderate Supporter) said:Does reliability take out the Gen3 Mitsu Montero?
I don't know, does it?
I'll be honest, Mitsubishi doesn't make me feel warm and fuzzy thinking about something like this. Parts availability might be a concern also... don't Nissans and Toyotas outnumber these things like 50:1 on the roads?
Prices on my local FB market place seem to be similar to Xterras.
The0retical (Forum Supporter) said:The only downside I can think of is that the VQ40 is thirsty.
Ok, but none of these vehicles will ever get good mileage, especially in the use case I am talking about. The Sequoia seems to be the worst by far though.
Seems that the 4 Runner and Xterra also also available with locking rear diffs from the factory which is a plus. Although I'm not 100% clear on which trim packages have them and what the signs are in a used car listing. Obviously this isn't a deal breaker, one could be added to the other cars, but they are pricey and I imagine a pain to install. Not sure if 100% necessary, but its comforting to know its there.
We had a gen2 Xterra for awhile and decided on it over a similar Gen 3 Montero for several reasons: (I'm a die hard Mitsubishi guy so it was a tough choice!):
In the end we traded up to a R51 Pathfinder for better ride and more room. But for a robust cheap offroader the Gen2 Xterra is a gem.
Having put many, many miles on a 1999 Grand Cherokee and about as many on a 1996 Cherokee, I can tell you that the I6 is pretty darn bulletproof. In fact, the rest of the vehicles are pretty stout as well. The only issue I ever had with my GC was brakes, but keep up on maintenance and hit the trail with a fresh set and you would be fine. With rear seats removed and a top cargo basket, I think you'd have plenty of room. Depending on the 4WD system you get, reliability would not be an issue, I put 260,000 miles combined on mine and never had a hiccup. I'd keep the lift mild, stick with the I-6 and basic Selec-Trac 4WD system.
IN general, it sounds like any of these are about equally capable of doing what you need. I think individual vehicle condition makes the final call. When (if) the time comes, buy the best cared for one you can find in your price range and you can't go wrong.
daeman said:Land Rover discovery, because. I haven't seen it mentioned elsewhere in here. I bet you could get one with a broken v8 for very cheap, then import a 300tdi engine and get about 40mpg.
Pretty comfortable on road, capable off road. Pretty good parts affordability really, even if you have to resort to getting stuff direct from the UK.
Find a D1 or D2 that hasn't overheated yet, replace the head gaskets with MLS and ARP stud the heads solves 99% of the engine issues. Refresh the cooling system and its done.
In reply to JesseWolfe :
How does that address the liner problem?
Is there any reason a pickup wouldn't fit the bill? I would think a Ranger FX4 Level 1 or 2 would be as capable for less cost up front, upgrade as needed, and a bed with a cap would be a better camping/sleeping area then an SUV.
In reply to JesseWolfe :
Maybe one would. What are some good ones to look for? I'm guessing Frontier (Xterra pickup) and Ranger like you said. Are there others? Typically the truck versions are not as good off road, correct? Because they have leaf springs for higher payload vs. coils on the SUV variants of the chassis?
Anything that requires major work is out because I'm not looking for a project like that - i.e. LR Discovery headgaskets or Trooper w/ motor swap, etc.
ProDarwin said:In reply to JesseWolfe :
Typically the truck versions are not as good off road, correct? Because they have leaf springs for higher payload vs. coils on the SUV variants of the chassis?
Old school Jeeps might disagree with that assessment of leaf springs. Also, if you are traveling long distances you'll have a lot of gear. Sometimes that higher payload is a benefit. I wouldn't rule out a pickup but it is a lot harder to keep gear dry if you don't run a camper shell. Plus its easier to sleep in the back of an SUV.
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