dean1484 wrote:
Brad. Your test does not represent race conditions. It is not a valid test. Again I recommend setting up a private room on line and testing. Grae was commenting last night that the differences in the physics was very noticeable.
I could do a 3:30 off-line but my best on-line was a 3:33. Dean can attest that I was on the ragged edge. So yeah, I highly recommend testing on-line. I had to adjust brake balance ABS & TC to get the car to settle down. I'd say I lost a second with the adjustments but the car should be more consistent. Remember though, I haven't been in a race/test room in a very long time.
If anyone wants to do some on-line practice tonight after about 8:30 ET I'll try to join. I recommend some 7 lap races with weather/time included as a factor. That should give all cars one pit stop. I
In reply to BradLTL:
All that you have accomplished is to effectively discredit anyone's efforts who might finish well in the event with a Pescarolo with unproven ringer claims. Finishing well in that car would be a challenge with it's fuel consumption. I chose it because it sounds like a race car with the V10 vs. the lazy revving diesels and I have to listen to it for and hour and 24 minutes. I plan on trying to finish well in the event which means that I can no longer drive that car, thanks. The greater variety of cars in the event, the more interesting it will be. I hope to see two Pescarolo Judd's on the starting line.
Hummmmmmm I am not one to ever pass up getting an unfair advantage when ever I can. Hell I did run the RX500 remember? 
I am going to have to test said "cheater car" 
Don't forget the regular series event tonight with S2000 and Classic Small Bore!
Wait Brad were you basing your conclusions on what the computer was doing or on your actual lap times and fuel usage?
The computer cheats BIG TIME!!!! Ever notice that the computer seems to get a big lead and then all of a sudden you are reeling the leader in. Then you get a lead and then the 2nd and 3rd place cars all of a sudden catch up to you and make the finish close? COMPLEETLY RIGGED!!!! It is the game making it more entertaining. Keeping it close. That has always bugged me and is one reason I never actually play the game off line. Hell I don't even do the vision challenge things. I think I have missed out on at least 2 of them and I had to go by them.
Argo1 wrote:
Don't forget the regular series event tonight with S2000 and Classic Small Bore!
I am going to miss tonight. I will be out making real money.
T.J.
UltimaDork
6/10/15 8:33 a.m.
In reply to Graefin10:
Mine is yellow. I had to suffer through a bunch of boring seasonals to get enough to buy it, and I'm not doing that again so we'll just both have yellow.
T.J. wrote:
In reply to Graefin10:
Mine is yellow. I had to suffer through a bunch of boring seasonals to get enough to buy it, and I'm not doing that again so we'll just both have yellow.
NP, after my on-line testing last night I know that in my hands the Pescarolo is not a ringer I'm going to stay with it.
The Bentley has a great sounding motor.
Other than the start and restarts I don't think we are going to see much of each other so colors are not that important.
Someone was running a stealth model somthing last night and it was all but invisible at night.
Using the track map is going to be critical at night.
Graefin10 wrote:
T.J. wrote:
In reply to Graefin10:
Mine is yellow. I had to suffer through a bunch of boring seasonals to get enough to buy it, and I'm not doing that again so we'll just both have yellow.
NP, after my on-line testing last night I know that in my hands the Pescarolo is not a ringer I'm going to stay with it.
If I don't win I hope you stomp the field with it.
In reply to dean1484:
B Spec. Where the computer drives the players car.
BradLTL wrote:
In reply to dean1484:
B Spec. Where the computer drives the players car.
That is not even close to reality. That is complete computer control of everything. You can not make any real useful comparison that way.
dean1484 wrote:
BradLTL wrote:
In reply to dean1484:
B Spec. Where the computer drives the players car.
That is not even close to reality. That is complete computer control of everything. You can not make any real useful comparison that way.
I know, terrible idea... remove human error/judgement/opinion, provide identical and repeatable test conditions, operate in a controlled environment, and record results.
At this point I can't tell if you guys are legitimately arguing with me, or just be sarcastic and ironic.
My argument is about tuning, Dean and Argo have said that no tuning makes it fair for everyone and that just isn't the case. I would argue that tuning (not modifying) allows drivers to setup cars to their liking and will allow closer competition. No tuning favors specific cars and favors those who have more time to find the best performing car that matches their driving style. And just because tuning is allowed, it isn't going to be required so people can still show up and drive.
And just to be fully transparent, my tuning on the 908 only changed the lap time by 2 seconds (again, B Spec... I have to dig my wheel out of the closet still, so I haven't turned a lap myself yet).
In reply to BradLTL:
Here are some reasons people aren't accepting your ringer claim:
- Using the game's AI which is notoriously inconsistent and as your "control"
- Individual driving styles may make certain cars faster or slower for a particular driver (including your B spec driver since you select attributes when starting and leveling up)
- Your test was at different fuel and tire consumption rates than the race will be (in group testing after Sunday's races the Judd needed to pit 1-2 laps sooner than other cars)
- Physics and tire/fuel consumption vary between online and offline races
As for your argument about tuning, what takes longer, running a couple laps in a car to see if you like it or completely tuning a car for a track? Or tuning multiple cars if you don't like the first one? Yes, you do need to find a car that suits your driving style, but no tuning equalizes the field better and is more of an "arrive and drive" than rewarding whoever can spend hours tuning their car.
BradLTL wrote:
dean1484 wrote:
BradLTL wrote:
In reply to dean1484:
B Spec. Where the computer drives the players car.
That is not even close to reality. That is complete computer control of everything. You can not make any real useful comparison that way.
I know, terrible idea... remove human error/judgement/opinion, provide identical and repeatable test conditions, operate in a controlled environment, and record results.
At this point I can't tell if you guys are legitimately arguing with me, or just be sarcastic and ironic.
My argument is about tuning, Dean and Argo have said that no tuning makes it fair for everyone and that just isn't the case. I would argue that tuning (not modifying) allows drivers to setup cars to their liking and will allow closer competition. No tuning favors specific cars and favors those who have more time to find the best performing car that matches their driving style. And just because tuning is allowed, it isn't going to be required so people can still show up and drive.
And just to be fully transparent, my tuning on the 908 only changed the lap time by 2 seconds (again, B Spec... I have to dig my wheel out of the closet still, so I haven't turned a lap myself yet).
The problem is that the computer generated results are not a constant and do not reflect the conditions of the real race. A cars drivability fuel consumption and overall speed is different in off line versus on line and then when the computer is "driving" it takes liberty's like boosting speeds and things that completely sque results. Thus using the off line computer controlled races to compare how cars will perform in an on line race with real humans is not a valid test.
We covered all this several seasons ago when testing cars for one of the series and found that cars that were ringers tested off line were not ringers when tested in on line rooms. And in a couple cases there were cars that sucked when testing off line but were very good when tested on line in rooms.
Until you get this there is no point in even discussing anything as there really is no valid results to discuss. Now if you go in line and test the various cars indivigually over say a 14 lap mock race (as I did last night with several cars with Grae and Mudd) and you find a car that is a ringer that is something we need to know about.
Ohya one other thing. This is for the most part a dictatorship. It is Argo's event. He is the judge jury and executioner. For the most part this is how the Sunday and Wednesday race series are handled. Both are Aircooled series he has the final say in things. Fair or not that is how it is. There are times when a democracy works. This is not one of them. One of the ways to keep order is through the use of a dictatorship. Look at any major racing series. NASCAR, F1, Indy car. All dictatorships. Same goes here.
You ran your idea up the poll and unforchintly no one saluted. The rules are the rules. Use the car that you think will win you the race that is legal under the rules. If you don't use the car that you have called out and don't win shame on you. If you use it and win then you won fair and square with in the rules. We don't want to here would have, should have , could have after the race. Everyone has the same playing field to deal with. Take what ever advantage you can find and exploit it.
It really is that simple
For FYI my best test results on RS: Courage-Judd 3:22, Audi R10 3:24, Pug 908 3:27. Not significant differences. I expect race pace somewhere in the mid to upper 3:30's. (P.S. I am not a robot or computer)
In reply to dean1484:
I get the computer sucks and that offline physics are different. Just that they will suck consistently and thereby are comparable. Frankly, I don't care.
And I can give Argo as much e36m3 as I want, he's my Dad... I'm allowed.
The whole tuning thing and it being better is an argument that Anth and I have had.... . . Several times. . . .
I always want to tune a car thinking it will make me faster. Then I remember that Matt and Anth and even Mudd and Grae (Sorry Air )will also be able to tune and will probably then be even faster than me.
BradLTL wrote:
In reply to dean1484:
I get the computer sucks and that offline physics are different. Just that they will suck consistently and thereby are comparable. Frankly, I don't care.
And I can give Argo as much e36m3 as I want, he's my Dad... I'm allowed.
No you don't get it the computer cheats and is completely inconsistent.
Ya I know who you are. All the more reason for me to give you an even bigger time of it. 
dean1484 wrote:
Ya I know who you are. All the more reason for me to give you an even bigger time of it.
I haven't decided which of you I will "accidentally" punt in Indianapolis yet. You know, just a FYI...
Hay us older guys gave to stick together. Can't have you young hoodlums getting to cocky now can we. 
.
I recommend that everyone clear their cache on the PS3 system before they join. We want a good room with nobody getting kicked.
I did that tonight. I also restarted my router. I still got kicked out of my own room, twice. Fortunately not at any vital times. I have definitely been having issues lately, and I have a fast connection.
I will take one of the Deltawings. I have both setup, so whichever Spool does not take. There is a chrome one and a black one (the Le Mans one I believe).
