This thing ever gets close to Indy I want a spin in it
This thing ever gets close to Indy I want a spin in it
bobzilla said:This thing ever gets close to Indy I want a spin in it
I will always keep you in mind. Thanks again for the calipers and there is an open invitation here in Maryland if you ever want to hit an event at VIR or Summit Point.
wvumtnbkr said:This car looks like fun. What engine is in it again?
It doesn't look like you have a dashbar as part of the cage. You will need one for champcar in 2021.
It's the Beta II 2.0L non variable cam timing. 5 speed which is a Mitsubishi unit.
we have the tube for the dash bar ready to go. We had the cage built to the regs before the new CCR came out requiring dash bars for 2021. It shouldn't be too hard to weld it in though.
kevinatfms said:bobzilla said:This thing ever gets close to Indy I want a spin in it
I will always keep you in mind. Thanks again for the calipers and there is an open invitation here in Maryland if you ever want to hit an event at VIR or Summit Point.
VIR is definitely on my bucket list
EDIT: what did the final weight get down to?
bobzilla said:kevinatfms said:bobzilla said:This thing ever gets close to Indy I want a spin in it
I will always keep you in mind. Thanks again for the calipers and there is an open invitation here in Maryland if you ever want to hit an event at VIR or Summit Point.
VIR is definitely on my bucket list
EDIT: what did the final weight get down to?
i believe he told me 2490 without driver. So not a lot lost over what we added with safety items. And this thing doesnt have any HVAC items at all. I was hoping for more of a loss but i can kind of understand knowing the cage is overbuilt for the weight of the car.
In reply to kevinatfms :
Not surprised. I know a guy that did all of that and weight reduction and barely got it to 2400 lbs. That chassis is just overbuilt.
bobzilla said:2450
And I would like to just point this out....
bobzilla said:bobzilla said:2450
And I would like to just point this out....
Yup, dead on. I do wonder what the weight would be without fire suppression, cage and a but more weight cut out of it(like the massive tombstone parcel shelf).
That parcel shelf is what makes them so strong.
wvumtnbkr said:2525# is my guess.
Only missed by 35#. I'm feeling pretty good about that!
Home sweet home next to my Fiesta ST and sons water table. Tight fit for two in this garage but I made it work.
SFI quick release hub added.
Window net finished, cage padding added and replaced cracked rear view mirror.
First outing was a huge success. Mr J and I co-drove the car for the GFE Trackcross at Summit Point.
two issues arose, one where the car wants to idle at 1600-2600rpm with a surge/rolling.
second issue was rub in the rear. We tried to roll the fenders on site but that didn't work out. So we need to raise the rear coilovers along with a roll of the outer fender.
with those issues the car still performed amazing. We both placed mid pack for the day(times are being finalized and I will post results) out of 98 cars total.
Mr J in the lanes waiting for the runs to start.
Start of the very first run on a track. Rear looks a little low from this picture which would bite us later when we found the tires chewed up.
You're truly coming off Big Bend cool down area.
Ordered idle air control valve and O2 sensor from Rock Auto. Idle control valves are pretty notorious for the rolling idle issues we had. Going to replace the O2 sensor since its old and the new ones are cheap($35).
A few setup notes from yesterday:
1. Front tire pressure was set at 35 cold. This seemed to work great. Plenty of grip, no rolling over and the farthest edge was right at the "triangle" on the sidewall. Tires did not overheat unlike my Fiesta which just beats the front tires into oblivion.
2. Rear tire pressures were set at 32 cold. Worked ok. I think we need to lower them at least 2-3psi to start since we were getting a bit too much rotation. They do not get hot at all. Rear brakes are also useless. They do absolutely nothing to slow the car down.
3. Engine felt very good for a box stock 2.0L Beta 2. Dont know if it was babied before we got the car but it would chirp the tires into 3rd gear quite easily and pull the car through a few corners in 3rd which actually lowered times. It has very good mid-range torque versus my last Elantra which surprised me. Mr J had the same thoughts and he comes from the Miata world so it was quite a change for him.
4. Rub rub rub rub rub rub rub. The rears rubbed so terribly bad. Need to fix this ASAP. Rolling the fenders this coming weekend along with raising the rear a 1/2" should give us the room we need out back.
5. Time to make a cold air intake and open the exhaust on this thing. It was WAY too quiet on track and trying to listen to the car instead of focusing on the tachometer made it much harder to find my line. Add in the rubbing/scraping noise in the rear and it just took away any sense of speed. A little bit of noise never hurt anyone...
That was something I remembered with my 02. Midrange was where it loved to live. 2-5k was the hot spot.
kevinatfms said:Ordered idle air control valve and O2 sensor from Rock Auto. Idle control valves are pretty notorious for the rolling idle issues we had. Going to replace the O2 sensor since its old and the new ones are cheap($35).
A few setup notes from yesterday:
1. Front tire pressure was set at 35 cold. This seemed to work great. Plenty of grip, no rolling over and the farthest edge was right at the "triangle" on the sidewall. Tires did not overheat unlike my Fiesta which just beats the front tires into oblivion.
2. Rear tire pressures were set at 32 cold. Worked ok. I think we need to lower them at least 2-3psi to start since we were getting a bit too much rotation. They do not get hot at all. Rear brakes are also useless. They do absolutely nothing to slow the car down.
3. Engine felt very good for a box stock 2.0L Beta 2. Dont know if it was babied before we got the car but it would chirp the tires into 3rd gear quite easily and pull the car through a few corners in 3rd which actually lowered times. It has very good mid-range torque versus my last Elantra which surprised me. Mr J had the same thoughts and he comes from the Miata world so it was quite a change for him.
4. Rub rub rub rub rub rub rub. The rears rubbed so terribly bad. Need to fix this ASAP. Rolling the fenders this coming weekend along with raising the rear a 1/2" should give us the room we need out back.
5. Time to make a cold air intake and open the exhaust on this thing. It was WAY too quiet on track and trying to listen to the car instead of focusing on the tachometer made it much harder to find my line. Add in the rubbing/scraping noise in the rear and it just took away any sense of speed. A little bit of noise never hurt anyone...
Those tire pressures seem quite high for track work on most of the 200tw offerings.
That's about where we run them hot.
Also, "roll over" or using the tire edges to determine pressure is not really effective for track work. A tire pyrometer will tell you much more effectively what pressures you should be running AND will help determine the proper amount of camber /caster.
If you were already rotating the rear easily, raising the rear will potentially make that worse. Can you just aggressively roll the rear fenders? If you aren't getting into suspension bind or sitting on the bumpstop in the rear, it should be good to send it. Just hack away until you don't have tire Interference.
Keep in mind the rear wheel openings are shorter than the front. So level ride height will tuck the rear wheels more than the fronts. I say go HAM on the rear fenders.
Tire pressures are inline with what i run on my Fiesta ST. The car works fine, just lower pressure in the rear to flatten out the tire a bit more. It only over-rotated on one certain corner going into it "hot". I my first run videoed with me cooking it into the corner quite aggressively which turned out to be a bad decision.
I will bring a temp gauge next time along with a better pressure gauge(lost my Longacre version) to get better hot readings. But right now 37 front and 35 rear while hot worked well on my crappy gauge that i had stashed in my truck. I want to lower the rear 1-2psi and retry at the next event. I think that would be the sweet spot.
We will roll the fenders as much as possible and see. It rubs pretty badly and we rolled them a good bit but they still rubbed the sidewall out of the tire.
Some better high quality photos from Jeff Walrich of Jeff Walrich Media. Car 477 is Mr J and car 325 is me.
Those pics make it look like positive camber in the rear which could be affecting rub.
kevinatfms said:Tire pressures are inline with what i run on my Fiesta ST. The car works fine, just lower pressure in the rear to flatten out the tire a bit more. It only over-rotated on one certain corner going into it "hot". I my first run videoed with me cooking it into the corner quite aggressively which turned out to be a bad decision.
I will bring a temp gauge next time along with a better pressure gauge(lost my Longacre version) to get better hot readings. But right now 37 front and 35 rear while hot worked well on my crappy gauge that i had stashed in my truck. I want to lower the rear 1-2psi and retry at the next event. I think that would be the sweet spot.
We will roll the fenders as much as possible and see. It rubs pretty badly and we rolled them a good bit but they still rubbed the sidewall out of the tire.
What are you using to determine ideal tire pressures?
All or most of the fast 200tw tires like 34 hot. Your starting pressures will vary a great deal.
If you are just gauging by how much the tire is rolling over, that would indicate you probably need more camber or caster at that tire.
Autocross can be a bit different than 2 hour stints on a racetrack. Not all the same ideas work as well.
I'm not trying to be a jerk. This is just stuff I have learned over 60 plus endurance races with lemons and champcar.
Your tires will last longest, and provide balanced grip, when they are all somewhat close in temp and somewhat even temps across each tire.
bobzilla said:Those pics make it look like positive camber in the rear which could be affecting rub.
Exactly what im thinking also by looking at that one shot. Since we have to swap the rear discs on we will probably just re-do the alignment to add some more rear camber. We are still going to massage the rear as much as possible though to give us as much room as we can get.
wvumtnbkr said:kevinatfms said:Tire pressures are inline with what i run on my Fiesta ST. The car works fine, just lower pressure in the rear to flatten out the tire a bit more. It only over-rotated on one certain corner going into it "hot". I my first run videoed with me cooking it into the corner quite aggressively which turned out to be a bad decision.
I will bring a temp gauge next time along with a better pressure gauge(lost my Longacre version) to get better hot readings. But right now 37 front and 35 rear while hot worked well on my crappy gauge that i had stashed in my truck. I want to lower the rear 1-2psi and retry at the next event. I think that would be the sweet spot.
We will roll the fenders as much as possible and see. It rubs pretty badly and we rolled them a good bit but they still rubbed the sidewall out of the tire.What are you using to determine ideal tire pressures?
All or most of the fast 200tw tires like 34 hot. Your starting pressures will vary a great deal.
If you are just gauging by how much the tire is rolling over, that would indicate you probably need more camber or caster at that tire.
Autocross can be a bit different than 2 hour stints on a racetrack. Not all the same ideas work as well.
I'm not trying to be a jerk. This is just stuff I have learned over 60 plus endurance races with lemons and champcar.
Your tires will last longest, and provide balanced grip, when they are all somewhat close in temp and somewhat even temps across each tire.
Just like i do with my Fiesta, as much pressure as needed to reduce rollover onto the sidewall, feel the tire face(have had some bad luck with pyrometers) and watch wear patterns on the edges. Its worked so far doing that and its been enough to win or place 1/2/3 in my class at these timed events.
Not all 200 treadwear tires are equal and i know alot of manufacturers do give you a recommended pressure but the Federals do not. I could lower it a pound or two at the next event and see how far it rolls onto the sidewall and report back. We didnt have traction issues, front felt planted without any push so i didnt feel like they needed to be adjusted up front. As for the rear, a flatter contact patch would help by lowering rear tire pressure(we were at 32 cold to start). So maybe start at 26-28psi cold to start and log pressures over the day. Again, this was the first event for the car and it had never touched a track before this day.
The front has -2.0 degrees of camber in it. The wear looks even across the tread and we had no issues with grip up front, no understeer(even mid corner FWD understeer) and no indication it rolled at all on the sidewall from tire flex. The rear - as Bob pointed out - has postive camber gain which is part of our rub problem. So we will add more camber to the rear while also massaging it out to add significantly more clearance. This coupled with the reducing in pressure should help plant the rear a bit more(if my brain is thinking correctly).
My method of tuning my Fiesta for track work has been quite good so far but Im open for suggestions and always try to listen as best i can. Sometimes things work, other times they dont. The Elantra's setup isnt half bad though and a few more sessions to feel out the car will do wonders for final alignment and pressure settings. The fronts were never overheated and wear across them looks good. The rears never got hot. So we are part of the way there.
Ordered an idle air control valve. Hope this corrects the rolling/high idle that we experienced during the trackcross. Car never stalled just idled anywhere between 1600 and 2600rpm and held. $20 from Hyundai and showed up in a day. Will install it this weekend and see how the car reacts. Car also needs an oil change and the PCV needs to be replaced since there is a significant amount of seepage around the valve/hose area. I also have a Max Bore ported throttle body to put on it along with a DIY intake kit which will hopefully bring some sound to this car.
When rolling the fenders this weekend i am going to try to pull them out a bit in the rear. Any one have any advice on pulling them so that i dont make them look like Ruffles potato chips? I know its a crap can but id still like it to be somewhat non-janky. Do I just keep rolling with more and more pressure/heat until its far enough out to create more space?
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