So if lightness is part of the plan, why not ghettocet the chassis?
So if lightness is part of the plan, why not ghettocet the chassis?
In reply to minivan_racer :
Because cosmetics and life after the challenge are just as important to me.
Just dont care for the ghettocet look.
Dusterbd13 said:mazdeuce - Seth said:In reply to wndopdlr :
I'm happy to know you're here, even if it's just looking over our shoulders to make sure we're not getting into too much trouble.
For everyone else, you need to plop yourself down in a chair next to this man at the $2018 Challenge and have a chat. Great guy. Great way to spend a couple hours. Glad he'll be there again.
that was one of the most amazing discussions i have ever been a part of, and i felt honored to be in the audience.
on a project note: i have googled my butt off for the last week, and am finally starting to get some good grips on the fabrication and execution of this. as well as the late 660 engines. turns out that the 3500 parts i picked up are from the first of the VVT engines, and therefore not able to be used. so ill need to return them for store credit when i get back into town.
additionally, this will not be anywhere near as simple as i initially thought. theres going to be major crossmember surgery due to the oil pan being integral on the 3400 and having crossbolted mains. to properly swap the intake 180 degrees, all the rwd accessories need to be swapped in for the fwd stuff. however, ive found references that just the upper intake can be flipped and prevent half the issues, but no actual pictures or how tos. so no guarantee that its actually possible. there will need to be some flanges and wings and protrusions cut out in the engine bay for clearance. PPF will need dealt with due to the camaro trans not actually using the torque arm in the same manner, and concerns about stress on the t5 in that manner. cooling may be troublesome as well, though i found an LFX swap thread where they angled the radiator, stuffed a bigger radiator in, and vented the hood.
so, areas of research that need to continue at this time (y'all are welcome to play along at home and post links to informative stuff, or personal experience)
1. additional chassis bracing and rigidity mods on challenge budget
2. cooling upgrades, preferably bigger radiators and mounted in was to provide more space for intercooler and turbo
3. PPF/rear end shennannigans
4. crossmember mods for clearance and strength.
If you aren't turning the intake around, you don't need to do the intake flip. If you are, you need to go full out with the rwd accessories.
I can walk you through it. It is a bit of fabricating for the different bits, but it is pretty easy. I can take more pics and do a step by step if needed.
I made my trans crewmember by putting the trans where I wanted it and bolting some steel to the stock locations. Then I just added pieces till they all touched. Tack everything together. Pull it off. Finish the piece, finish welding, paint it and put it back on. Add a mount for the off.
Might take a day to finish the bracket, but it was one of the hardest parts....
Also, my engine fit behind the rx7 crossmember. No fab required for that on an fc.
I might think about cutting the firewall before the crossmember due to engine setback advantages.
wasn't there a 4th Gen F body with a T-5, That Trans tail housing would have a place for the Torque arm or PPF to mount.
Dusterbd13 said:mazdeuce - Seth said:In reply to wndopdlr :
I'm happy to know you're here, even if it's just looking over our shoulders to make sure we're not getting into too much trouble.
For everyone else, you need to plop yourself down in a chair next to this man at the $2018 Challenge and have a chat. Great guy. Great way to spend a couple hours. Glad he'll be there again.
that was one of the most amazing discussions i have ever been a part of, and i felt honored to be in the audience.
on a project note: i have googled my butt off for the last week, and am finally starting to get some good grips on the fabrication and execution of this. as well as the late 660 engines. turns out that the 3500 parts i picked up are from the first of the VVT engines, and therefore not able to be used. so ill need to return them for store credit when i get back into town.
additionally, this will not be anywhere near as simple as i initially thought. theres going to be major crossmember surgery due to the oil pan being integral on the 3400 and having crossbolted mains. to properly swap the intake 180 degrees, all the rwd accessories need to be swapped in for the fwd stuff. however, ive found references that just the upper intake can be flipped and prevent half the issues, but no actual pictures or how tos. so no guarantee that its actually possible. there will need to be some flanges and wings and protrusions cut out in the engine bay for clearance. PPF will need dealt with due to the camaro trans not actually using the torque arm in the same manner, and concerns about stress on the t5 in that manner. cooling may be troublesome as well, though i found an LFX swap thread where they angled the radiator, stuffed a bigger radiator in, and vented the hood.
so, areas of research that need to continue at this time (y'all are welcome to play along at home and post links to informative stuff, or personal experience)
1. additional chassis bracing and rigidity mods on challenge budget
2. cooling upgrades, preferably bigger radiators and mounted in was to provide more space for intercooler and turbo
3. PPF/rear end shennannigans
4. crossmember mods for clearance and strength.
If you have the budget and can find one, a 3.4 from a 4th gen F-body can be merged with the crank/rods/piston/heads/intake from your 3400. Called a 3.4/3400 Hybrid. The 3.4 has the older mains.oil pan. That might work better with the crossmember.
I was hoping to avoid tge budget hit if building a hybrid. Same with accessories. But, i won't be able to know ANYTHING for certain until we get the actual engine into the actual engine bay. Right now its all conjecture based upon napkin math and internet research. If all goes well, ill have an idea this time next week.
Got those measurements on the Volvo intercooler:
Volvo part number 1317319 - Charge Air Cooler. You can pull up some more pictures of it if you google "Volvo 1317319".
Quick internet research shows it came on the cars below. (Might be helpful for connecting hose parts or junkyarding)
It's yours for the $35 I paid for it plus shipping if you decide that you want it.
Lets make sure that space limitations allow me to do a v6 with enough room for a turbo first. After we know it will all fit, and that i have enough room for an intercooler of that size and a front bumper simultaneously, ill let you know. Its a good price, dependant on shipping cost.
In other news, 36 hours from now we'r headed to Ohio to get some engines.
And we have an update, but work is kicking my ass right now. Only checking the forum because im on break. Headed back in for a bunch of paperwork instead of doing anything else on my to do list.
I was in the shop and heard my Sawzall buzzing ,it was saying I CAN MAKE IT FIT.
I did contract work in prisons for a couple of months. With enough effort, a very determined person can make things fit ANYWHERE.....
No worries. The intercooler has been in my garage for a few years now. It can stay there a while longer without issue.
Good luck with work.
Challenge budget so far:
previous total: 384.25
recoup total: 800
this update:
returned the 3500 intake and exhaust manifolds to pull-a-part: -106.75
bought correct intake manifold from non VVT 3500: 34.95
bought 3500 fuel rail and feed line: 12.95
bought big throttle body from an alero: 40.59
current challenge budget:
365.99
recoup total: 800
ok, so thanksgiving has came and went. With it was a LOT of research. See, research for me tends to be relaxing and enjoyable. I like burying myself down deep and incomprehensible rabbit holes to see where they lead.
One of these holes was about the 3500 top swap. Turns out that there are 2 (at least) different versions of the 3500: VVT and non-VVT. The parts I had picked up were of the VVT variety, which will not work with the 3400 were using. So, I returned them and got the correct version. While there, I started looking at throttle bodies. The 3500 was drive by wire in all versions. The 3400 never was. So, needed to come up with a cable driven throttle body. Also, the 3500 intake allows for a much bigger throttle body, which will probably be beneficial in this application. So, while wandering the rows looking for an 04-05 3500 Malibu, I started nabbing throttle bodies that were cable driven and used a visually identical IAC and TPS. I grabbed one from a 6.0 ls, and one that was in an Oldsmobile alero with a twin cam v style engine. Dunno what size....
clockwise: 3500, lsx, alero
20171126_111453 by Michael Crawford, on Flickr
alero throttle body was within 1/16 of the 3500 according to a tape measure, so I went with it. Its 1/16 bigger. Different mounting pattern, but nothing too bad to work with.
Proof of intake pulling:
20171126_111444 by Michael Crawford, on Flickr
20171126_111450 by Michael Crawford, on Flickr
20171127_164002 by Michael Crawford, on Flickr
20171127_215620 by Michael Crawford, on Flickr
20171127_215605 by Michael Crawford, on Flickr
I didn't get the exhaust manifolds, as im fairly certain im making my own log manifolds from junk long-tube SBC headers and scrap 3/8 plate. Im also fairly certain that the fwd manifolds wouldn't come remotely close to fitting.
So, Monday while my wife and daughter were doing girl scout stuff, dad and I finished stripping the challenge car to a pretty bare tub. We pulled everything that didn't make it roll, steer, or stop.
20171127_184109 by Michael Crawford, on Flickr
20171127_200405 by Michael Crawford, on Flickr
20171127_204603 by Michael Crawford, on Flickr
20171127_204535 by Michael Crawford, on Flickr
20171128_195813 by Michael Crawford, on Flickr
20171127_205456 by Michael Crawford, on Flickr
yesterday, dad did a bit of pressure washing. Pictures it doesn't really look much different, and it didn't touch that freaking plastidip nightmare, but its altogether a much nicer thing to work on now.
We also found some “minor” damage: steering rack broken, frame rail and floor pan damage...
20171128_195746 by Michael Crawford, on Flickr
20171128_194719 by Michael Crawford, on Flickr
20171127_204541 by Michael Crawford, on Flickr
20171127_204548 by Michael Crawford, on Flickr
until next time
added update because work system crashed on me. wont be back up until morning
Make sure you take that sales tax off your budget, and probably the core charges too
Thought those had to be in budget? Ill happily take off. Just want to be honest.
We are entering the Shenandoah valley on our way to Patrick.
Good trip with dad. Damn good trip.
Have a safe trip. Once you clear the mountains its a pretty boring scene through ohio!
Ohio can'tbe more boring than eastern south Carolina
Dusterbd13 said:Ohio can'tbe more boring than eastern south Carolina
Funny. I lived in eastern SC. I call Ohio the SC of the north... Boring as it could possibly be.
25 miles into ohio. Not boring yet. 
And what will we find at Patricks' exactly?????
Jimmy Hoffa
Picking up the 3400. And maybe other stuff.
Where in Ohio? I have some stuff that may be helpful and or if you want to look over my swap... Im in New Alexandria PA. About 1.5 hours from the OHIO PA border.
We have a fmic and td04e.
40 bucks.
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