frenchyd said:In reply to yupididit :
I'm just responding to your comment.
You had replied to it already. You ok Frenchy?
frenchyd said:In reply to yupididit :
I'm just responding to your comment.
You had replied to it already. You ok Frenchy?
Stampie (FS) said:Patrick (Forum Supporter) said:In reply to 03Panther :
No, but it's amusing that stampie is having an internet cock-off with a guy 1500 miles away
At least I choose to bring a BBC to a cock off.
Finally. Thank you.
Who cares if he has "cheaty cams"?
This is why I thought the budget rules of the Challenge should generally be applied so folks have a little wiggle room and it's above board.
frenchyd said:yupididit said:frenchyd said:SVreX (Forum Supporter) said:Stampie may win this without building anything.
We'll see in 2022. That's when Stampie agreed to come up here. If He shows up with a stock big block he'll get a race.
The point was bbc/sbc/ls vs v12 both with cheap power adders.
Now you want him to go stock while you use your mods?
Or you want stock vs stock (possible cheater cams)? Which was not the point of this 12 page discussion.
I offered stock to stock several times. cams on all three engines are very easy to check
If you go back to July 5th Stampie offered a $300 engine limit. Which would exclude his BBC since he has $450 in it.
Wow you twisted that so bad. On July 5th I was making fun of yupididit's response to you. Funny I think you knew because you didn't quote it yet you quoted all this others as you're reading the thread again.
thatsnowinnebago (Forum Supporter) said:Stampie (FS) said:Patrick (Forum Supporter) said:In reply to 03Panther :
No, but it's amusing that stampie is having an internet cock-off with a guy 1500 miles away
At least I choose to bring a BBC to a cock off.
Finally. Thank you.
You must really like to get slapped in the face with it before you get one.
pres589 (djronnebaum) said:Who cares if he has "cheaty cams"?
This is why I thought the budget rules of the Challenge should generally be applied so folks have a little wiggle room and it's above board.
If I want it to be fair then I have to be fair. Cheaty cams really give me extra Horsepower, more so than a Chevy. I already have a set laying around and it's 15 minutes per side to swap cams and adjust. Simple math, if you reduce the base circle by .100, then add .100 to existing shins and install
Don't have to take the intake off Valve cover and there are the cams. No push rods or rocker arms to mess with.
Stampie (FS) said:frenchyd said:yupididit said:frenchyd said:SVreX (Forum Supporter) said:Stampie may win this without building anything.
We'll see in 2022. That's when Stampie agreed to come up here. If He shows up with a stock big block he'll get a race.
The point was bbc/sbc/ls vs v12 both with cheap power adders.
Now you want him to go stock while you use your mods?
Or you want stock vs stock (possible cheater cams)? Which was not the point of this 12 page discussion.
I offered stock to stock several times. cams on all three engines are very easy to check
If you go back to July 5th Stampie offered a $300 engine limit. Which would exclude his BBC since he has $450 in it.
Wow you twisted that so bad. On July 5th I was making fun of yupididit's response to you. Funny I think you knew because you didn't quote it yet you quoted all this others as you're reading the thread again.
Humor does not come across on postings. When I go for humor, I've learned to write ( attempt at humor)
As far as quoting all others I was answering questions or comments others raised. I didn't expect them to remember what they wrote.
03Panther said:frenchyd said:I already agreed to Stampie's $500 no forced induction. Stampie doesn't like it because that leaves him $50.
while I have enough to use my reground cams. And bigger intake valves.
My counter offer was he brings a stock BBC and I'll leave mine stock too. He doesn't like that because he's not dumb.
That you did not propose till after many pages of saying something else entirely.
One of the troubles on these sorts of deals is so many people are piling on I'm spending a lot of time explaining things.
Those explanations take time. When I'm brief what I write is twisted. If I carefully explain things few bother reading.
pictures and cartoons get attention. Too bad I'm such a Luddite and can't do that.
In reply to frenchyd :
It seems you don't expect us to remember what you wrote either... How's that working out for you?
03Panther said:frenchyd said: I iSVreX (Forum Supporter) said:Stampie may win this without building anything.
We'll see in 2022. That's when Stampie agreed to come up here. If He shows up with a stock big block he'll get a race.
So, you’ve not read any of this thread? The whole argument you have presented is “I can build more HP with a v12, cheaper”. I don’t see the word stock in that statement anywhere
My original statements going back 6 years is that a Jaguar is a better cheaper alternative than a Chevy.
Be honest ask yourself, what a big block Camaro, Corvette, or Firebird would cost. Something from the 70's-80's-90's Would cost. Assuming nice shape, semi decent paint, relatively low miles . Something stored away for 15-20 + years
My XJS meeting that condition cost me $500 I've since seen slightly cheaper and more expensive. I recently was forced to pass on a better one ( British version with 299 hp instead of 262)
Power wise Jaguar raced against those cars and won enough to be champion. Cost ? I'm sure they are similar
In reply to frenchyd :
This isn't 1992 anymore. $500 Jags are basket cases no sane person would ever touch with a 10 foot pole.
There is also no such thing as a factory big block camaro from the 80s or 90s.
Daylan C (Forum Supporter) said:In reply to frenchyd :
This isn't 1992 anymore. $500 Jags are basket cases no sane person would ever touch with a 10 foot pole.
There is also no such thing as a factory big block camaro from the 80s or 90s.
So I'm assuming you're implying frenchy isn't sane. I think I agree.
Daylan C (Forum Supporter) said:In reply to frenchyd :
This isn't 1992 anymore. $500 Jags are basket cases no sane person would ever touch with a 10 foot pole.
There is also no such thing as a factory big block camaro from the 80s or 90s.
Fair enough But I'm sure a BBC can be fitted just as easily to a newer Camaro etc just as easily as to a JaguarXJS.
Stampie (FS) said:Daylan C (Forum Supporter) said:In reply to frenchyd :
This isn't 1992 anymore. $500 Jags are basket cases no sane person would ever touch with a 10 foot pole.
There is also no such thing as a factory big block camaro from the 80s or 90s.
So I'm assuming you're implying frenchy isn't sane. I think I agree.
You may have a point. But is my question valid? Could you buy a semi decent Camaro etc and a BBC for $500?
might I remind you I bought mine just a few years ago and less than a month ago was forced to pass on a better one for $1000
SVreX (Forum Supporter) said:In reply to frenchyd :
It seems you don't expect us to remember what you wrote either... How's that working out for you?
That's why I go back
This thread is a waste of time. Its full of hypotheticals and conjecture.
Frenchyd why are you so scared to build a car? You have all the parts in your garage and knowledge in your head but all you do is talk.
Put up or shut up.
The tone of this is hard to convey, but I mean it in a friendly way because I really want to see what you and a Jag CAN do. Not on paper and not what some guy did 20 or more years ago.
Pattyo said:This thread is a waste of time. Its full of hypotheticals and conjecture.
Frenchyd why are you so scared to build a car? You have all the parts in your garage and knowledge in your head but all you do is talk.
Put up or shut up.
The tone of this is hard to convey, but I mean it in a friendly way because I really want to see what you and a Jag CAN do. Not on paper and not what some guy did 20 or more years ago.
The race is due in 2022. I'm going to start in due time. Patience is advised. To the best of my knowledge terms are not yet agreed upon.
In reply to frenchyd :
I can't speak for Tempie but on the 10th he said he is out.
I hope you can take some time to make some rules that will allow this to move forward.
In reply to Pattyo :
I'll have my car ready. I hope Stampie is there to give me a race. Let him prove his statement. Chevy is better than Jaguar.
In reply to frenchyd :
Frenchy:
To be honest, I couldn't care less what you said 6 years ago.
THIS thread is about a big block Jag. Says so right in the title. The obvious question that brings up is whether a big block is a better engine for the Jag than the original Jaguar engine, or if it was a big mistake.
And since Jag is in the title, EVERYONE expected that you would show up with an opinion (and we all knew what that opinion would be- the Jag engine is better, and that they shouldn't have swapped it to a big block)
You are a really good guy who should be able to help answer that question. So far, this thread is a complete waste of time, and you are offering a lot of hot air.
I'm not that interested in a race where the two of you jockey for position to see who can win (or cheat better). I'm interested in answering the question "Is a BBC engine an improvement over the original Jag engine or not, with ultra basic low budget mods that anyone can do". (Preferably within a Challenge budget)
Anybody can build it faster and better. With EITHER engine. That's just noise- you guys huffing and puffing.
Don't make it about winning, or about yourselves, or your pride. Nobody cares. Make it useful to the community, and SHOW us which is better.
frenchyd said:SVreX (Forum Supporter) said:In reply to frenchyd :
It seems you don't expect us to remember what you wrote either... How's that working out for you?
That's why I go back
Going back to old conversations is a bad idea. Would you bring up a 5 year old conversation with your wife hoping to resolve something that had never been resolved?
It won't end well. Don't do it.
The conversation has moved on. You should too. Don't keep digging up stuff that everyone is done with.
I don't know how cheap it is, but a 12 cylinder XJS road racer can be done.
https://www.classicdriver.com/en/article/cars/bringing-noise-twrs-thunderous-jaguar-xj-s
I can't find a $500 XJS around here but I do see imperfect running ones for 5K to 6K which really isn't bad as today's car prices go.
How about whoever wants to be on one side of this or the other show up at the Challenge with either a Jag V12 or a BBC and run under those rules etc and whoever can't or won't doesn't. I could see Stampie show up with a Infiniti / Chevy Q454 and finishes mid-pack at worst and I don't see any Jag V12's getting within 100 miles of the event.
pres589 (djronnebaum) said:How about whoever wants to be on one side of this or the other show up at the Challenge with either a Jag V12 or a BBC and run under those rules etc and whoever can't or won't doesn't. I could see Stampie show up with a Infiniti / Chevy Q454 and finishes mid-pack at worst and I don't see any Jag V12's getting within 100 miles of the event.
The Challenge isn't really a road racing event and the XJS is really too big for autocross. I actually drove a friend's XJS in an autocross once. It was fun, the V12 was smooth, but it was no Miata. Personally I wouldn't want to build any kind of Jaguar with a budget of $2,000 or less, much less a $300 or $1,000 budget for the engine, but I think you could build a decent track car out of one for less than 20K including safety equipment and race tires and have a blast with it.
pres589 (djronnebaum) said:How about whoever wants to be on one side of this or the other show up at the Challenge with either a Jag V12 or a BBC and run under those rules etc and whoever can't or won't doesn't. I could see Stampie show up with a Infiniti / Chevy Q454 and finishes mid-pack at worst and I don't see any Jag V12's getting within 100 miles of the event.
If it was in my neighborhood I could do that. It's 2600 miles away round trip. Stampie is right there. He wins.
But you are at least partially right. No Jaguar is going to "win" an Autocross. Big cars simply have to travel further than smaller cars. Those extra feet add time in a sport measured in fractions of a second.
Drag racing is the same. Weight to power is what determines the winner. Jaguars start out well over 4000 pounds and are often competing with cars 1/2 their weight or less. In addition that IRS which helps improve their cornering ability on the race track hurt on acceleration from a dead stop.
Not just Jaguar, every IRS car suffers.
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