$2008 Challenge Window Rule Question

We were considering cutting out the interior door frame on our festiva, but we'd have to lose the windows as well. If we installed window nets would this be legal?

Safety rule 3 - Cars must also meet all NHRA safety regulations. This includes, in addition to the items required by the autocross safety rules, the presence of front, side and rear windows.

but why would you need window nets if you had windows rolled up?

Safety rule 4 - The following safety gear can be installed on the Challenge vehicle or used by the driver without counting toward the Challenge Budget: ... window nets and their mounting hardware ...

We'd be keeping the rear side windows, but losing the fronts...

i've seen cars with window nets run at the Challenge drags. but i think it'd be prudent to make some lexan windows that just pop into place, and keep them in your trailer "just in case". if you don't have to use them, they don't count against the budget.

also, in an open car, arm restraints are acceptable, so perhaps in a closed car with no windows, arm restraints would be the way to go.

thanks for the input - thats a good idea. we had initially nixed the lexan idea on the windows because of the high cost, but saving that much weight by doing just the fronts would likely be worth it.

timely question as i was just discovering the high cost of lexan

can anyone who HAS gone lexan recommend a source for it? i just may do it if there is room in the budget.

The NHRA rules have been contradictory on this one for years. They technically require windows in place, with or without nets.

Obviously not the intent.

Netted cars have already been to the Challenge.

The SVX we ran a couple of years ago had the windows and all associated hardware removed entirely, but we made brackets to mount the stock windows back in via a couple of screws. No nets. That way, if anyone objected, we could put the glass back.

IIRC, we ran the autoX with no windows, then screwed the glass back in for the drags. Or something like that.

You'll be fine with no glass and nets.

so then do nets count towards budget? they are a safety item but if you didn't remove the windows, you wouldn't need em..

bluej wrote: so then do nets count towards budget? they are a safety item but if you didn't remove the windows, you wouldn't need em..

See the first post in this thread. They don't count toward the budget.

That is correct. Thanks Paul.

Per

daaaaamn... i'll claim lack of coffee intake for that one.

thanks!

Ok to bring this back from the dead.

I would like an official ruling. Can you remove the windows? Maybe Per could chime back in.

Also is a targa top car considered open top?

Let me see...reading rules again: http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/events/2009-challenge/rules/

>Windows may be replaced with clear Lexan or >polycarbonate that meets all safety requirements.

that does not say that windows can be removed.

Another rule: Cars must also meet all NHRA safety regulations. This includes, in addition to the items required by the autocross safety rules, the presence of front, side and rear windows. Open-top cars may run if the driver is wearing arm restraints and approved seat belts.

I would consider a targa topped car without the targa panel an open car.

So would an open top car be legal with no windows? How about with brooklands screens? They are somewhat of a front window but definitely not close to stock size.

Yes, that would be allowed by the rules and open cars with small windshields have run in the past.

The short answer is you've got to read the rules and go with what's there.

The long answer is that it's a fun event where the rules are occasionally bent to allow disallow cars that are cool. Andy Nelson's bug, for example, wasn't so legal—the fenders weren't on the car, they were, however, 'present' and that was good enough. I've since closed up that loophole, but that's a whole 'nother story.

I didn't have a top or windows or rollbar. NHRA rules didn't require them, challenge rules didn't require them, and I didn't have the budget for a bar or a hardtop. During tech the NHRA tech guys said I couldn't run the drags. I had to borrow a hardtop and spend precious concourse prep time reattaching stock hardware to make it work. Just a warning, usually the tech guys are laid back and only care about a battery tie down and a zip tie on your overflow tube. Occasionally they can be shiny happy people.

Hmmm, that's weird. they usually don't have issues with Miatas.

Per Schroeder wrote:

jdmae92 wrote: So would an open top car be legal with no windows? How about with brooklands screens?

Yes, that would be allowed by the rules and open cars with small windshields have run in the past.

Am I correct to interpret the rules as saying that the driver of an open car needs to wear an arm restraint during the drags?

Per Schroeder wrote: Hmmm, that's weird. they usually don't have issues with Miatas.

Yeah, it surprised me as well. I didn't bring my rule book with me, but I don't think it mattered. I told him it was legal in the NHRA rules and he said it was unsafe and he wouldn't allow it.

Did you have the arm restraints?

I didn't own any, but had a line on some to borrow. He was really pushing the lack of rollover protection so a rollbar or hardtop seemed like the only options that would satisfy him. A friend was running a hardtop equipped car and I was running late for the autocross so I offered that option instead of continuing the argument.

Gotcha. This was a turbo'ed miata? Needs a rollbar for anything under 13.99, IIRC>

?

MrJoshua wrote: I didn't own any, but had a line on some to borrow. He was really pushing the lack of rollover protection so a rollbar or hardtop seemed like the only options that would satisfy him. A friend was running a hardtop equipped car and I was running late for the autocross so I offered that option instead of continuing the argument.

did you adjust your budget to reflect the hardtop as part of your car?

i keed, i keed.

my open-top corvair had a rollbar, maybe that's why they didn't break my balls. i also had the arm restraints with me at tech, i didn't try the old "yeah, they're back on the trailer, that's the ticket" routine.

Per Schroeder wrote: Gotcha. This was a turbo'ed miata? Needs a rollbar for anything under 13.99, IIRC> ?

13.99 would have been nice.

The funny thing is that a Miata hard top would probably offer minimal rollover protection. I'm not an engineer, but the fact that I can pick it up by myself makes me think it's not that "structural".

Granted that's all I ran in the drags too. I certainly wasn't close to 13.99 either!