Hi all,
I'm adding a steering damper to my 2006 Ford E250. One of the holes in the frame for the steering damper bracket is currently being used as a ground from the battery (this van has a battery isolator and it appears to have two grounds, and this one is not OE, someone appears to have seen the hole and thought it as good as any for a ground).
Is it safe to use one bolt that mounts the bracket and attaches the ground? I want to avoid any unwanted surprises coming back up through the steering linkage. I would use a different hole, but there are none others on the frame that make as much sense.
TIA,
Eric
Along as all the surfaces are clean, it will be fine.
Streetwiseguy said:
Along as all the surfaces are clean, it will be fine.
This is true as far as it goes but there is an important detail. You shouldn't put the cable end under the same nut that clamps the bracket. Use a long enough bolt or stud that you can properly tighten the bracket to the frame and the install the cable followed by another nut properly tightened for the softer cable end. You may need some washers between the nuts and the cable to get good bearing surfaces.
Shoot. Already did it with a washer in between the head of the bolt and the mating surface of the end of the cable and between the cable and the bracket. Do you think that's good enough?
You're saying put a nut on the bolt that holds the bracket, then put the cable end, followed by tightening the bolt?
The van starts so it seems fine so far with the way I have it...
It's not for the ground cable sake, it's for the steering damper bracket sake.
CyberEric said:
Shoot. Already did it with a washer in between the head of the bolt and the mating surface of the end of the cable and between the cable and the bracket. Do you think that's good enough?
You're saying put a nut on the bolt that holds the bracket, then put the cable end, followed by tightening the bolt?
The van starts so it seems fine so far with the way I have it...
The problem with the way you have it isn't electrical it's mechanical. The cable is likely copper and therefore relatively soft. As the bolted joint flexes the cable will squish it's way out allowing the joint to loosen. You need a way to separate the two joints. The drawing below illustrates both the correct way to do that joint and why I usually use CAD instead of drawing by hand.
I don't know if you have threads in the frame or if you're using a through bolt. This is drawn is if it's a through bolt. The bolt and Nut 1 secure the bracket to the frame. Nut 2 and the washers secure the cable. The cable joint never sees the forces that the bracket joint does so the soft cable end won't be damaged. If you have threads in the frame then run a stud into the threads and install the nuts and washers as shown.
Another option is to use a double threaded hex stud like the OEMs often do.
Ah, that all makes sense.
There are threads in the frame (just tapped it actually). I just bought a nut and am going to re-do it with (inside to outside) frame-bracket-nut-washer-cable-washer-head of bolt. Does that makes sense? This is a tight fit so I'm hoping this works.
CyberEric said:
Ah, that all makes sense.
There are threads in the frame (just tapped it actually). I just bought a nut and am going to re-do it with (inside to outside) frame-bracket-nut-washer-cable-washer-head of bolt. Does that makes sense? This is a tight fit so I'm hoping this works.
I don't think that's going to work. There's no way to assemble it and end up with everything tight. You could slide the washer-cable-washer combination on the bolt, thread the nut onto the bolt and then insert the bolt through the bracket into the threads in the frame but then you need to run the bolt in without the nut tightening up against the bolt head. Once you accomplish that then you need to tighten the nut against the bracket which will lock the bolt so it doesn't turn leaving you with no way to clamp the cable. If you leave the nut loose enough that you can turn the bolt you can run the bolt in to clamp the cable against the nut but then the brackets not clamped. You might fiddle with it enough to time everything just right so that it feels like everything is tight but there's so many interacting factors that you won't really be able to tell.
I suggest either drilling out the threads in the frame so you can use a bolt like the picture I drew or get a stud.
Yeah I see what you mean. Dang. Hmmm, I'll see what I can find at the hardware store.
Okay, so the hardware store near me didn't have anything like the second picture. They didn't even have a metric m10 x 1.5 stud. So I had them cut the head off a bolt, so now I basically have a fully threaded stud in the correct size.
My thought is to thread this make-shift stud into the frame using two nuts threaded on the stud. Then back those nuts off and use a lock nut for the first nut to ensure nothing moves around, then washer, cable, washer regular nut.
Do you foresee any issues with this design? It's basically the picture you drew APE Owner.
My only concern is that maybe a lock nut might interfere with current due to the plastic threaded portion. But maybe that's not an issue as the washer is the actual mating surface, not the nut.
I'm not sure it would be a problem, but I probably wouldn't use a locknut in the middle of that stack.
If it ends up adding anything, you've already had your ground fall off. And even if it's not really a mechanically important interface, the top of a nylock nut isn't really meant for that. It would certainly reduce the contacting area, which isn't good if that is/becomes a path for significant current. Heck, if you end up down that path you could wind up melting the nylon, losing its support for the crimped crown of the nut, and having the contact get worse...
Like I said, not sure it would actually be a problem. Just started thinking about why it didn't seem right to me and all of a sudden there was a paragraph... 
Yeah all that makes sense to me, and having read it, I think I am going to use a regular nut for both nuts instead. Thanks!
CyberEric said:
Okay, so the hardware store near me didn't have anything like the second picture. They didn't even have a metric m10 x 1.5 stud. So I had them cut the head off a bolt, so now I basically have a fully threaded stud in the correct size.
My thought is to thread this make-shift stud into the frame using two nuts threaded on the stud. Then back those nuts off and use a lock nut for the first nut to ensure nothing moves around, then washer, cable, washer regular nut.
Do you foresee any issues with this design? It's basically the picture you drew APE Owner.
My only concern is that maybe a lock nut might interfere with current due to the plastic threaded portion. But maybe that's not an issue as the washer is the actual mating surface, not the nut.
I think you've got a good basic plan. Of course, it was my plan in the first place so one would expect me to endorse it. I don't think you need to do the double nut thing to install the stud. I should just thread in but if it doesn't then sure, the double nut plan will work. I wouldn't mess with the lock nut.
Got it installed (along with the steering damper). That turned out to be much more "involved" than I anticipated!
Thanks for all the help guys.
Like this.
