Bench racing again, This time: 90s Dodge truck chassis setup

So I have a few questions concerning the (probably/hopefully) challenge truck.

First of all, I'm assuming the easiest way to make a 4,000lbs vehicle handle is throwing as much rubber as possible under it. In my case, I have a set of really hideous and heavy Boss 304 20x8.5s. I think a 275/45r20 will fit and it looks like that there are a few decent tire options in that size. The 16x7 steel wheels on the truck now might be worth looking at keeping as well since they are noticeably lighter than the 20"s, but I obviously can't fit as much tire on them.

For the suspension I was thinking I need to find a 3/4 or 1 ton front sway bar and see if it fits and check to see if it's any bigger than what I have. and probably the obvious lowering coils in the front and a hanger/shackle kit in the rear. (was thinking a 2/4 drop instead of the 4/6 I've mentioned before) Not sure where to look for shocks yet.

Also not quite sure on what to do about the 90s base model truck steering box and brakes yet either.

I also just considered the idea that it might be somewhat smart to spend all my budget on the chassis and do the 360 swap after the challenge. Or I could just accept that it's going to be slow anyway and make it at least sound good.

Ditch the 20s. Big wheels make everything harder. Rotating weight makes accel and deccel harder. Unsprung weight makes the suspension work harder. Large diameter makes your gear ratio worse and brakes have less torque.

For a truck, my bet is you could sell the 20s (clean em up real nice), and buy a set of wide 15s or 16s (think rock crawling) with cash to spare.

16x10 Pro Comp steel wheels

So ditch the hideous bling wheels and look for something like this? Probably used.

Exactly. May even be able to get closer to $50 per wheel from summit/jegs.

I'm assuming you know of this thread, but in case you don't

C-10 built for the Targa Newfoundland

It's the build / adventure thread of the long wheelbase C-10 you pictured earlier (the black one). No real exotic stuff in his build (minus the engine), but boy he makes it work! I'm sure you can get some ideas from his thread.

In reply to 4Msfam:

That's the first thing I thought of when I saw the craigslist ad for my $400 long bed Dodge. The biggest issue with just copying him is he has factory truck arms while I have leaf springs.

EDIT: Looks like I can get a set of these from summit for around $340, probably can get at least that from the 20s.

EDIT2: looks like 15x10s are way cheaper and open up actual race tire options, but then I'm pretty sure I'd have to cage the truck if I remember the rules correctly.

With as popular as those Dodge trucks were/are - I bet you'll be able to find some used wheels cheap

Jeep grand cherokee steering box? They work in everything else dont see why it wouldnt work in a dodge

I think the hardest thing to achieve with trucks is some semblance of balanced handling. You have a big front weight bias and usually a significant rear spring bias (to carry a load in the bed) and overcoming that isn't trivial. Can you get the truck on scales front/rear just to give you more data to think about?

Any suspension will work if you don't let it.

One ton springs cut for proper height, leaves rearched and stiffened in the back. Biggest sway bars and widest tires you can find. Box and brace the frame as necessary for rigidity. Jgc steering box. Lighten the front, and add weight out back. Shocks:use the kyb reference catalog to see what fits with the proper stroke after lowering, and find used good shocks for that application.

So pretty much just as I thought,

a lot of tire

a lot of stiff

a lot of sawzall

For steering, check if a steering box from a 93 - 98 Jeep Grand Cherokee will bolt in. If so and you can find one in good condition cheaply enough, that'll get you a 12.7:1 ratio box (it's right about 3 turns lock to lock in the Jeep, should be similar in a truck).

For wheels / tires, unless you want to go small on tire diameter, you might need to run 18s or 19s to have a decent selection of wide, sticky tires. Basically, look at sizes used by the performance SUVs on the market and work from there.

I couldn't stand going bigger than a 17 on the Jeep, which means for sticky-ish summers, I've got a few choices in a 235, 2 choices in a 255 and 1 choice in a 275. I'm currently running the stickier (and more expensive) of the 255 options (in the form of 255/60R17 Goodyear Eagle F1 Asymmetric 4x4s) and they definitely stick, even though they're pinched a bit onto 8" wide wheels. I haven't had the balls to actually find their cornering grip limits yet. I've pushed it pretty damn hard (to the point where the old Grabber UHPs would definitely be ready to let go) and these tires weren't even beginning to complain

If one from an XJ will fit, will one from a ZJ fit? I ask because I have an XJ sitting here and could try that box before I buy one for a ZJ.

Also, thought #11, what about channeling the cab down onto the frame to lower the COG? I mean, it needs floors anyway...

Chadeux wrote: If one from an XJ will fit, will one from a ZJ fit? I ask because I have an XJ sitting here and could try that box before I buy one for a ZJ. Also, thought #11, what about channeling the cab down onto the frame to lower the COG?

Anything that lowers the COG will help. Mounting the drivetrain lower won't hurt either if you can do it.

For the XJ vs ZJ steering box, if the XJ box fits, the ZJ box will too.

Heck, if you're not in a rush to get a box in there and can live with a box that has 1/2 - 3/4" of slop in it (even after adjustment), the stock box that's currently in my ZJ can be yours for the cost of shipping when I upgrade to the PSC Jeepspeed box at some point this summer.

Thanks for the offer, I'll try the XJ box and see what I can find locally, but I'll keep that in mind.

mazdeuce wrote: I think the hardest thing to achieve with trucks is some semblance of balanced handling. You have a big front weight bias and usually a significant rear spring bias (to carry a load in the bed) and overcoming that isn't trivial. Can you get the truck on scales front/rear just to give you more data to think about?

I agree with this. For example, I put my 00 Dakota R/T ext cab on scales. It weighed 4140 lbs, with just under 2700 lbs on the front tires. With that much weight on two tires, it understeered quite a bit when I autoxed it. It had 275/50/17 tires, but really needed a bigger tire. Fronts got hot pretty easily.

So if we're channeling the cab we should move the engine/trans back a few inches too? This simple engine swap and drop plan is getting really complicated.

Chadeux wrote: So if we're channeling the cab we should move the engine/trans back a few inches too? This simple engine swap and drop plan is getting really complicated.

If there's space, might as well. In addition, ABS and any other extra weight up front goes away, battery goes in the bed, etc.

Is this is where I mention that I was thinking of keeping the AC and using this as my daily later, and everyone gives me confused look?

Chadeux wrote: Is this is where I mention that I was thinking of keeping the AC and using this as my daily later, and everyone gives me confused look?

That's the point where I agree with you. If the A/C bits fit and they're not too heavy, keep it. Plus, then you can be cruising around the track at the challenge and not sweating your butt off like everyone else

"Can the gentleman in the 90s dodge truck that looks like it escaped the local dirt truck please turn off your ac? you're dripping water on the track"

Currently sitting here wish-washing on the full ham body drop course of action. On one hand, that's a hell of a lot of work I don't really know I have the capability of doing. On the other hand, it'd be really cool and I'd have to learn some things.

Keep the AC. It will make the truck WAY more pleasant to drive, and more driving is better.

I'm extremely used to not having AC. I did plan on keeping it though. And fixing it on my other truck eventually.

Chadeux wrote: So if we're channeling the cab we should move the engine/trans back a few inches too? This simple engine swap and drop plan is getting really complicated.

If we're gonna go all out push the engine, cab and bed back (shorten bed), shorten the front half of the frame. No fenders or hood.