Best Vintage DD

Hey guys.

I am requesting thoughts and opinions from the Great GRM Brain Trust of All Things Automotive regarding vintage DDs. I know this should probably go in Classic Motorsports, but there is much more traffic here. Anyway, the wife has given clearance for me to get a classic DD. Yay! So let me give you some proposed usage information:

Daily commute - 35 miles total. Freeway, clear in the morning, some traffic in the evening. I live in SoCal (Ventura County), so no snow/ice and rain is infrequent. I has a garage, but it is not big, so I can't do a Lincoln Continental or the like. I has (obviously) the ability to work on cars, just no MAJOR surgery. I like manuals (aka SoCal Anti-Theft Device), but not column shifters. I am going to need AC. I MAY take it on a long road trip or two. It needs to have 4 seats. It cannot be newer than 1975 (Yay CA smog laws!).

Ok, so now that I have laid that out, what say you? I have been looking at Mustangs (71-73 Mach 1s in particular), 70-73 F-Bodies, Darts, Cougars, Barracudas, and Javelins. I am also looking at old Mercedes (250c, 280se, 450slc) BMW Bavarias, Volvos (P1800, PV544, 122S), and FIAT 124s. The budget is around 15k.

Ready, GO!

I'm partial to Pontiac F-body's but really would have a hard time walking away from any pony car.

The early mach's are a favorite of mine, but check the length for your garage. They weren't Connies, but they weren't small. If you can go mid-late sixties on a pony car you'll come in smaller but pricier. Around here 15k would get you a REALLY nice, well sorted driver mustang from 66-68, but in SoCal, you may be screwed there.

Really, there are so many choices in models, I'd look more at options. You want disk brakes up front, minimum, and you want power brakes. Before 1975 those weren't guaranteed to go together. You want AC. For that kind of scratch just go drive stuff until one speaks to you.

I DD'd a 69 F100 with no air, manual drum brakes, a manual three speed, and a big block in Atlanta for a couple years. You're looking in pansy car territory.

EDIT: I would stick to American or really high volume imports only, though. If it's expensive to repair or find parts for it will complicate your life. Not what you want in a DD.

also, if you look at carbed V8s, you want either a 2 bbl (yeah, I know, but DD) or better yet a Quadrajet carb. Quads had a bad rep for bogging on secondary actuation, but the two front primaries were comparatively small and could get pretty good mileage if you used a light foot. Carters (or Edelbrock) carbs were worse on mileage but did equally well on low maintenance requirements. Avoid Hollies. They can be tuned to be faster than the others but they're thirsty and require constant fiddling. Not what you want in a DD.

Some time after the F100 I DD'd a 1970 Impala with a 350 and an Edelbrock. I routinely saw 15-18 on the highway at moderately illegal cruise speeds.

Several of those cars are likely to be really rusty even in California, but as long as you check carefully it should be ok. For an American car a falcon wouldn't be bad either. An Alfa spider, fiat x1/9 (hard to find a 75, but they exist), or an Alfa spider wouldn't be bad either. For more unusual choices, Alfettas, Lancia Betas, Citroen SMs, Alfa Berlinas, and older jaguars (mk2 or ?) can all be found for under $15k.

Someone has to be the Alfa Guy here, so I will.

If the rear seats are rarely used, a GTV will really fit the bill nicely- we drove one across country to a convention, and it's a super nice car as a GT car- loved it. It does get decent mileage- we were close to 30mpg. Our car does not have A/C, but I know that the option does exist, as to the brackets, etc... The ones I know who had it really loved it in that car.

If the GT is to small, I would suggest a Berlina or Giulia TI with a 2.0l dropped in it. They are the same car as the GTV, just longer with 4 doors. And you can get the A/C system for it, too.

But, the most important thing of all- YOU MUST LIKE THE CAR. Being that old, every car is going to need work, even buying at $15k. So you will want to actually LIKE to get out and keep it going just right. Plus, you should like smell like exhaust. While I knew the numbers that the emissions hardware does matter- but it took a few long drives recently to remind me what we all smelled like in the 70's. The headache was no fun, too. yuk.

alfadriver wrote: Plus, you should like smell like exhaust. While I knew the numbers that the emissions hardware does matter- but it took a few long drives recently to remind me what we all smelled like in the 70's. The headache was no fun, too. yuk.

Must be an Alfa thing.....I've never had that problem in any of the old heaps I've DD'd. That E36 M3's dangerous!

The 122/1800 choice is a pretty good one too. They are surprisingly driveable stock, even with pretty low rated output.

ultraclyde wrote:

alfadriver wrote: Plus, you should like smell like exhaust. While I knew the numbers that the emissions hardware does matter- but it took a few long drives recently to remind me what we all smelled like in the 70's. The headache was no fun, too. yuk.

Must be an Alfa thing.....I've never had that problem in any of the old heaps I've DD'd. That E36 M3's dangerous!

It's all relative- I actually remember what I smelled like after a trip as a kid. That wasn't in an Alfa- but my car reminded me what it was.

Series I Jag XJ6 or 12. They seem to run forever in other parts of the world, but over here people are convinced the only way to keep them running is to throw a Chubby-rolet V8 at it. If you so inclined you could do the same.

I would look at a Datsun 510. Those are small, vintage cars, though.

How about something a little different...

The one I got to ride in was very comfy and it had a very unique styling even when compared to other cars of the day. Feeding it could get spendy but not much worse than some of the other cars you mentioned.

BMW 2002 cause it is awesome (I'm not biased)

alfadriver wrote:

ultraclyde wrote:

alfadriver wrote: Plus, you should like smell like exhaust. While I knew the numbers that the emissions hardware does matter- but it took a few long drives recently to remind me what we all smelled like in the 70's. The headache was no fun, too. yuk.

Must be an Alfa thing.....I've never had that problem in any of the old heaps I've DD'd. That E36 M3's dangerous!

It's all relative- I actually remember what I smelled like after a trip as a kid. That wasn't in an Alfa- but my car reminded me what it was.

Gonna have to side with alfadriver here. I've daily driven a number of 60s - 70s cars and you always smell at least a little bit like exhaust. There's no way around it. If you didn't notice it, you must not have a very sensitive sense of smell.

Thanks, some excellent suggestions here.

A note about the size of the car. I am more limited by garage width than anything else. A 71-73 Mustang would be about as big as I can get, and that might be pushing it.

Any Benz love?

I have read on here that the Volvo Amazon is a rather modern car that looks very vintage.

How about a BMW Bavaria or a Datsun Maxima. The BMW has the cachet & the Datsun has the low cost of parts & Japanese durability. Both have great sounding and running SOHC L-6s & IRS. They are both great DDS with nice back seat room and great comfort, with just a little sport thrown in. And unusual in most modern sedans, great outside vision.

Geekspeed wrote: Any Benz love?

As GRM has shown, they are great cars.

It's more about how much you love them.

Every old car has been a POS, every old car has been on someones bucket list. IMHO, if a car is still around, then all of the massive problems that they historically had have been dealt with in one way or another (fixed or lived with).

So I don't think any choice is going really be one that can't fit the bill. It's far more about what YOU can live with.

$15k is a lot for an early-mid 70's car. you can get a pretty nice version of exactly what you want. Or maybe a low end of something exotic.

singleslammer wrote: I have read on here that the Volvo Amazon is a rather modern car that looks very vintage.

To some extent, yes. The later 1800E (coupe) and 1800ES (wagon) are even more so: EFI, 4 wheel power disc brakes, 4 spd plus o/d makes them good highway cruisers. Parts are generally available (well known vendor in SoCal) and upgrades are available if you want to tinker. If they have one functional downside, it may be the lack of power steering, so parking lots can be a chore at times.

They are not wide cars, but reasonably roomy inside. Very good if you're tall compared to many Euro cars.

Mileage is even tolerable: typically in the mid-upper 20's.

A $15K budget will get you a very nice driver-condition 1800.

I just realized 15k will buy some very very nice vintage tin. American, German and British would be where I looked. There are too many cars that I like and would want to own. If I had the money and had to make this decision I'm sure my head would explode. So many cars I would want.

How big is your garage, and can you live with 8mpg.

My first answer was to be Mercury (Ford) Capri
Old enough, cool enough, unique enough but they do not command the premium price tag.
I searched for a LA example and found this
http://orangecounty.craigslist.org/cto/4435418567.html

BUT...
While looking for the Capri, I found this:
Cortina Wagon with Ford V8 and 5 speed already swapped in.
Good God, buy this before it hits BAT and the price goes up. http://sandiego.craigslist.org/nsd/cto/4525033650.html

Porsche 914 2.0 or with careful shopping 1974 911. Drive a couple of years followed by profit

$15,000 would get you a very nice Mopar A-body (Dodge Dart, 1969 and earlier Barracuda, Duster, Valiant, and a couple others). While they were a "compact" car there, the Darts measure in at about 16' long; most other ones are a couple inches shorter. Some things to keep in mind with A-bodies:

1. The '66 and earlier have a smaller engine compartment. You can fit a small block (the Mopar small block seems to have been designed specifically to fit in the A-bodies) but a big block is a really tight squeeze.

2. '72 and earlier used an oddball 5 x 4" bolt pattern that can make finding aftermarket wheels difficult. As suspension parts swap from '62-'76, though, you can put the later brakes from a '73 and up (or some creative parts bin work) to get the larger bolt pattern.

If you're fearless.