NXXN...THAT IS AWESOME!
NXXN...THAT IS AWESOME!
Not sure a mid-engine gets any better than this. Just add a passenger seat, get rid of the p-car logos and you're good to go.
well if we are going to go that route, I say 
BOCAR!!! Slide the driver forward a scoche, add a touch of side exit exhaust, work some subie headlights into those flares, a little FF prestidigitation, and SHAZZAAAAM!!! ...instant badassery!
http://foto.mail.ru/mail/vaz21123alllroad/_myphoto/379.html
wow, seriously? canoe
4cylndrfury wrote: well if we are going to go that route, I say
Please no. The roadster covers that styling genre.
bbjones121 wrote:4cylndrfury wrote: well if we are going to go that route, I sayPlease no. The roadster covers that styling genre.
Fair enough, I just wanted to toss that into the "toss an existing racing roadster body over the subie mill" ring. Im ALL for the original designs weve seen here already. In the case of the mysterious new FF car, I think we need to reinvent the wheel.
In reply to 4cylndrfury:
I agree, this is a chance to design something that nobody else has. You don't want your average driver on the road to look at the car and say, "that must be a cobra;" "that looks like a miata with a body kit;" "I think that is a lotus;" "that looks like a honda s2000;" or "that looks like a kit car." You want people to say, "wow! I have never seen something like that before!"
Please no bugeyed reflection headlights...this needs a projection type headlight that you could put a nice set of BMW bi-xenon projectors into.
Newbee, Just signed up. This contest is interesting and I thought I might have some input on it.
4cylndrfury wrote: wow, seriously? canoe
Not a canoe. Those are his entries.
How about something along the lines of a stretched Smart Roadster? It has nice simple lines that could easily be adapted to the FF chassis layout. It has a targa style top that many here would probably like to see on the car.
The style of of the headlights should also be fairly easy to manufacture since there are no fancy lenses over the entire assembly, just individual projectors stuck in cavities moulded into the fiberglass of the hood. The tail lights look very similar to those of a honda S2000. In fact, I think using the light assembly from a car that has all sorts of "ricer" aftermarket kits available would really help keep the cost down. If I were designing the body I would ditch the little hatch-back conversion thingy you see in one of the pics below. Just make the rear deck a little less slab-like and add some more aggressive lines to the front and rear bumpers and it looks good to me :)
Nice Mazda tail lamps!
I don’t mean to be a bit disruptive but I have to say that there are aspects of this competition that are troublesome to me. First of all is the professionalism aspect – the dominate feeling I get is “amateur competition”. There are certainly other issues too….
olpro wrote: I don’t mean to be a bit disruptive but I have to say that there are aspects of this competition that are troublesome to me. First of all is the professionalism aspect – the dominate feeling I get is “amateur competition”. There are certainly other issues too….
Well, I would have to guess that this IS an amateur competition. If factory five wanted a professionally designed body they would either use someone in-house (assuming they came up with the body design of the GTM in-house and didn't contract it out, I really have no idea) or they would spend huge sums of money having a body designed by a professional design and prototyping firm. Also there's the fact that they are open to submissions ranging from simple line drawings to full 3D CAD renderings indicates (to me at least) an amateur competition...
or did I misunderstand your concern? Do you feel this should be a professional design "competition" trying to land a contract to design the new body, or are you concerned that you're seeing professional-looking entries in what is supposed to be an amateur contest?
I think it's also safe to say that no matter which design wins it will simply be used as a design theme when the REAL body shape is defined by FF themselves.
What are your other concerns?
armstrom wrote: I think it's also safe to say that no matter which design wins it will simply be used as a design theme when the REAL body shape is defined by FF themselves.
this...as it is stated on the competition main page. FF just wants the basic idea: outlines, shape, style, flow, etc. All the actual design work of making the IDEA fit will be up to really real engineers who have reallly real degrees, and graphing calculators, and god only knows what else. We are just the inspiration. No need to get nutty over the fiddly bits...
NXXN wrote: Hi Guys heres an early sketch i put together ,its kind of a Lotus 2Eleven by Pininfarina sort of vibe.
love it. This is my favorite so far. Can you do a sketch with a windshield, and a removable roof? (kind of like Lotus Elise, Tesla Roadster, etc.)
In reply to armstrom:
Several issues arise. One, there is no information on WHO the judges are in the official information, or any thing on the judging process itself. ONLY after reading this thread (which VERY few entrants would have discovered) it is clear that the folks at FF5 and maybe this magazine are going to be making the decisions. (This was never formally announced and there is a significant question over whether these guys are truly qualified to judge a “design contest”. I doubt if any of them have any demonstrable qualifications as a professional “body designer”) I do not have any issues or complaints about this, OTHER than the fact that it was never exposed or announced to the potential entrants, who may be spending many hours of effort on their proposals assuming the “professionalism” of the judging panel. I have seen numerous other design competitions where the judging panel is announced from the get-go, to assure potential entrants that their efforts will be appropriately considered. Such judges, and their professional expertise/qualifications are a guarantee that it isn’t an amateur effort. Secondly, there is the issue of what will happen with the final winning entry. Again, the IMPRESSION left from the official entry information is that the winning entry will be PRODUCED. This is not the case, as a reading of this thread itself makes clear. The entrants will be operating under the impression that their design – if it wins – will see production, albeit with some modifications for production! However naïve this impression might be, it could easily be clarified without having to wade through the many pages of this thread to find the truth. The determining issue on this is the fact that, by entering the competition, people GIVE UP the design rights to their ideas, even if they win nothing. It is one thing to enter a professionally judged competition, with a real chance to see their ideas actually produced… but to take a flyer on a lesser contest SHOULD be made clear to them from the outset.
I like popcorn.
Will the interior dimensions allow for sports seats with side bolsters? If the Subie FF car will corner as well as I think it will, we'll need all the side bolsters we can get.
Cobra:
Recaro:
Sparco:
Corberau
As you can tell from the pictures, I like seats that are on the comfortable side, and recline. It's probably partially because I have a girlfriend, an we would like to take the Subie FF (btw.: does it have a name yet?) on weekend trips up and down HWY1 in California.
Hard racing shell 1-piece buckets aren't very conducive to comfort. As anyone with a significant other can attest to, "If they're not happy, you're not happy".
I realize that FF may provide their own seats, or some people would rather not invest in seats to keep the total costs down. It would be nice though if the design would allow enough space to install most popular aftermarket seats.
(I have experience with my Pontiac Fiero, where most aftermarket seats are too wide to fit in the car. Hoping to avoid this headache with a FF build.)
In reply to olpro:
im not trying to be a summers eve, so I will keep it brief. FF came to this forum, and this forum alone (well not counting their own) because they wanted our opinion on what the new car should look like. Its an opinion. If you want a guarantee that your submission will go into production, as you draw it, without changes, go work at Chrysler. if they wanted a truly, 100% accurate, dimensionally perfect, 3d, production ready rendering, they could go to a pro firm to get it designed...and thats only if they are incapable of designing it in house, which I bet they can. The long and short of it is that if you want to participate, great. Draw a picture. If not, thats cool, dont. Click here for the contest details which are clear in that you give up your rights to your pic by submitting it to the contest. If you want to keep your rights to the pic, keep them to yourself. Its that simple. Do you think the designers at Porsche get to keep their pics? Prolly not. Id bet my years salary that Porsche owns them. So bottom line is, this contest is for people who may not have any other chance at getting "their" car built. If you dont fall into that category, then thats fine, but seriously, dont take this thing too seriously, none of the rest of us are. We take it juuust seriously enough
Hey, I think olpro just made some points that might be worth adding to the FAQ section ;)
In reply to 4cylndrfury:
I have no problem with your analysis. It is right on. My issue it that the entry information is misleading on these things, and could easily be made more clear. Still, even if a person is willing to give it a go, there are other less than professional aspects of this thing. The so-called templates that are provided for entrants to use.... these should be formatted to guide the entries to answer the real issues involved in such a body design problem. They are not. Therefore any moron could possibly win the competition with an entry that should have been thrown out on the basis of being totally impossible to realize (again, the professionalism of the judges becomes important here). Years ago I entered the Fisher Body Craftman’s Guild and it had far more specific drawings for the entrants to reference – and this was for high school kids! For heaven’s sake, at least take into account the ride height from the actual tire’s ground patch, at the static load rating, NOT the overall diameter. Amateur city. Maybe at least a minimal reference to ramp angles?? How about a bit of basic information on lamp heights (it is state law, after all) and designs that don’t take this into account should be so handicapped. I am not asking for bumper heights although it is reasonable to at least be aware of this. There are readily available SAE seating manikins, with H-points and more importantly, forward and rear vision requirements. Are you suggesting that the entrants (even amateurs) are too dumb to take this basic information into account? I think the guys who will take the time and trouble would welcome the necessary limitations on reality. This isn’t some dumb movie car.
Guys- Here is my stab at a concept which takes cues from some of the current LMP cars.
In reply to olpro:
Im not gonna go round and round - the point is that FF WANTS any "person" (Im not going to call people on here morons, Im people on here) to be able to enter. Engineers and designers arent going to be their customer base, regular people are, so regular people can enter. Topics relating to the specifics of to the tenth of an inch ride height, EXACT light placement, EXACT seating position, etc etc etc have all been covered, and the basic rundown is that SPECIFICS DO NOT MATTER...FF SIMPLY WANTS YOUR IDEAS. GET OVER IT. YOURE NOT GOING TO WIN. DRAW AND IDEA AND ENTER IT, OR DONT, ITS REALLY UP TO YOU. Dont call it "amateurish" because they arent going professional enough for you, theyre taking a ...GRASSROOTS approach. I know I know, radical idea.
I like to see the forum population grow here. There are some really awesome people here with really awesome backgrounds that have really awesome ideas and really awesome skills. Adding headcount to that is only going to make a good thing better. But really, if youre unhappy with the way things get run around here, theres plenty of other good forums that would be glad to have you. Im sure of it. You seem smart, but hung up on perfection, exacting detail, and things being done your way. This forum works because people here A). understand that GRM ALLOWS US to use their FREE forums to have fun and interact, and B). we listen to their rules, and DONT TAKE IT TOO SERIOUSLY.
Argo1 wrote: Guys- Here is my stab at a concept which takes cues from some of the current LMP cars.
I like it!. Turn the subie lights sideways...nice approach. I also really like the fenders and the low beltline!
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