Ian F wrote:Swank Force One wrote: I still can't decide if i love or hate this thing. I think i'd like it far better with a hardtop.Same here. As a roadster I'm indifferent, but I might like it with a roof and door glass. If I'm spending that much time & money on a roadster kit, I'd rather have a Cobra or Galek.
I think the key here is that you'd be spending a whole lot less money than building a Cobra.
In reply to mainlandboy:
I dunno, I mean, not to sneeze at $3k, but that's about the price difference between the 818 and the Basic Roadster kit, and it looks (at a cursory glance) like they are each best built with a donor (Mustang or WRX), and if anything, I figure the 'stang is going to be a bit cheaper to come up with (and replace wear items from the donor for), if not much.
So, roughly $15k vs $18k for a finished car? For the time and money involved, the 818 vs Roadster thing would be much more about preference than money.
Not to sidetrack. Stoked to see the 818 being unleashed on the real world!
Where does this thing class for autocross? Let me Google that for me... Not definitive, but looks like E Mod is a good guess...
I'm sure FFR isn't going to be upset if you choose a Roadster over the 818. They'll sell you a kit either way 
But Cobras don't do anything for me. I think I've seen too many cruise night editions, they hold zero allure. The 818 looks promising and I'm looking forward to seeing one in person. Biggest problem is that it will sound like a Beetle 
ransom wrote: So, roughly $15k vs $18k for a finished car? For the time and money involved, the 818 vs Roadster thing would be much more about preference than money.
I have a FFR Roadster. I think It would be really hard to build one for $18K.
I'm really interested in no-paint panels if they can pull that off (or even low prep panels). The FFR build was fun for me up until the bodywork and paint.
In reply to jv8:
That's an excellent point. I have zero experience, and just extrapolated from FF's $10k kit/$15k car on the 818 and scaled up for the $13k kit on the Roadster (noting similarly priced donors), totally missing the paint aspect...
Buddy of mine has built an FFR daytona coupe,neat but the footwell/pedal positions are totally whacked.I drove it late last summer and having no place for your left foot but UNDER the clutch pedal is pretty awkward.I'll 2nd the bodywork/paint effort based on his,lots of money to have door edges built up and many other things made to line up decently. No paint panels that fit would be much more appealing for those that would want/expect to assemble and drive without additional cost/time spend.
ransom wrote: In reply to jv8: That's an excellent point. I have zero experience, and just extrapolated from FF's $10k kit/$15k car on the 818 and scaled up for the $13k kit on the Roadster (noting similarly priced donors), totally missing the paint aspect...
There are other things besides paint. I got sucked into making it look vintage and/or original (just couldn't use the donor gauges, wheels, etc). The 818 is a unique modern design built from a modern donor so it doesn't have that issue.
At the moment I keep thinking about going even more bare bones raw... Like the Exocet or a Locost. Something with minimal bodywork sprayed with a rattle can so I can beat on it without worry.
Westfield uses a colored gel coat. Suits that kind of car perfectly, nobody's ever commented on the "paint". Probably helps that it's bright yellow.
In reply to Keith Tanner:
To me, the 818 does nothing for me. I don't care how well it performs, the commitment required for a kit car needs more than that. More than just dollars and cents, too. It needs to offer something a Cobra or Locost or a Galek Sylva doesn't and I haven't seen it. Maybe I'll feel differently after seeing it in the flesh. Hopefully they'll bring the prototypes to Carlisle.
dean1484 wrote: I still want to know if you could put a GTM body on the 818 chaise.
Having seen the two chassis right next to each other - never in a million years.
Without decent aesthetics, it's just another kit car to me. I'm sure that FFR's extensive experience will result in a better kit than a new-to-market company, so there's that. But the damn thing is ugly and dare I say it... ricey.
I really see a massive missed opportunity here: lots of beautiful designs were submitted to the contest/maketing-hype, they went with a hodgepodge their engineer dreamed up. Sad 
peter wrote:dean1484 wrote: I still want to know if you could put a GTM body on the 818 chaise.Having seen the two chassis right next to each other - never in a million years. Without decent aesthetics, it's just another kit car to me. I'm sure that FFR's extensive experience will result in a better kit than a new-to-market company, so there's that. But the damn thing is ugly and dare I say it... ricey. I really see a massive missed opportunity here: lots of beautiful designs were submitted to the contest/maketing-hype, they went with a hodgepodge their engineer dreamed up. Sad
and regardless of how beautiful the new design was, you'd have some people that thought it was ugly. You just can't please all the people all the time.
One man's beauty is another man's ugly. Believe it or not, I know someone who thinks a Jag E-Type is ugly! Figure that one out! 
peter wrote:dean1484 wrote: I still want to know if you could put a GTM body on the 818 chaise.Having seen the two chassis right next to each other - never in a million years. Without decent aesthetics, it's just another kit car to me. I'm sure that FFR's extensive experience will result in a better kit than a new-to-market company, so there's that. But the damn thing is ugly and dare I say it... ricey. I really see a massive missed opportunity here: lots of beautiful designs were submitted to the contest/maketing-hype, they went with a hodgepodge their engineer dreamed up. Sad
I think that you've completely missed the point of the car. Aesthetics are hit or miss. Responses will vary from I want to have passionate sex with it to My diarrhea looks better. That's to be expected unless the design was sheer brilliance. But there are still people who criticize the looks of the Miura, E-type, et cetera. The real point of the car is that in the US at least, it's in a class of one. It's aerodynamic and mid-engined, so in those ways superior to Cobras and sevens. It's way cheaper than a Radical and can be driven on the street. It's half the weight of other mid-engine cars, and should be tighter and more precise than them.... There's every reason to think that this will be THE budget racer of choice. If you choose to pooh-pooh it because of its looks, that's your loss.
And subjectively I think that the design is better integrated than the GTR. The GTR is much bigger, heavier, and in my eyes, just a bit clunky looking. Like something a good amateur would pen, versus a real pro. But the GTR and 818 are different items altogether. The GTR will probably walk away on faster courses (Think Willow Springs) while the 818 will give it all it can take at places like Sears Point or an autocross.
""""
Personally, I just want the chassis and whatnot, no body...I think some simple, riveted sheet metal or composite panels would make it more personal, and put the focus on the blistering performance the combination of the chassis and drivetrain are going to make possible.
Ive spoken my piece a few times in the past regarding the aesthetic they chose, their motivations for using that design, the outcome of the "contest" etc etc. I like the engineering that went into the frame, and thats what Im willing to pay for.
So guys, I'm waiting with bated breath for an update. Have you received the kit? If so, how about some pics?
The kit will be in our hands soon. Work is scheduled to start later this month.
David S. Wallens wrote: The kit will be in our hands soon. Work is scheduled to start later this month.
Is this able to be registered in Canada?
If a comparison Should be done, please pick a price point to build them too so you are comparing apples to apples
Looking forward to a 818/Smythe/Westfield/Catfish/Exocet shootout. You do have one of those planned. Eh, GRM? 
^^ Yes please! And add in the Superlite Razor and/or Nemesis while you're at it!
Yes to the shootout. We need to have the different options detailed and tested!
David
Geez, guys, let's let them build the kit first!
Sexy...I can't wait to read about it. My sub is all paid up in preparation for the article series. Too bad it won't be built in time for the UTCC.
HiTempguy wrote:David S. Wallens wrote: The kit will be in our hands soon. Work is scheduled to start later this month.Is this able to be registered in Canada?
Registration isn't usually an issue. Importing a kit is. Luckily, if you decontent a kit to a particular level (agreed upon with Transport Canada) you can bring it in. FFR knows this, they've got their Roadsters approved. The amount of parts coming from a donor car helps a lot, as that makes the kit less complete.
BTW, the Miata-based Westfield is also importable.
Keith Tanner wrote: Registration isn't usually an issue. Importing a kit is. Luckily, if you decontent a kit to a particular level (agreed upon with Transport Canada) you can bring it in. FFR knows this, they've got their Roadsters approved. The amount of parts coming from a donor car helps a lot, as that makes the kit less complete. BTW, the Miata-based Westfield is also importable.
It now seems oh-so-silly that I sold my $3000 2002 WRX. Still is nice to dream though 
In reply to Xceler8x: FFR will be bringing one to the UTCC.
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