Furious with GM! Another dead in-tank pump, no access panel!

Umm. A Geo is a Suzuki.

Maybe you should be mad at them too. 

In reply to ShawnG :

He had a whiner thread about those a while ago too

I know the perfect car for this situation.

Model T's don't have a fuel pump AND they're not a GM product.

ProDarwin said:

RichardSIA said:

Did an actual careful count, this will be No. 9 of 11 F.I. cars I've owned or repaired for others. And yes, of course it failed right after filling the tank.

 

I'm confused about this statement.  This is the 9th of 11 that required a fuel pump replacement?

I've owned 17 fuel injected cars I believe (At least 8 or 9 of those were GM).  I've never had a fuel pump fail. 

I've had pumps fail. GM, Ford, Chrysler... never had one fail on a Korean car though. AND they have access panels (filters are part of the pump assembly). So I guess they're just doing it right.

Also had mechanical pumps fail. Gas, diesel, GM, Ford, International (345). Change a mechanical pump on a 6.2L diesel in an 84 Suburban 4wd. If you don't own ratcheting wrenches with fine teeth, you will hate life. We had to replace that one at least twice.

In reply to bobzilla :

I have replaced quite a few Sonata fuel modules after the top cracks and causes an evap leak.

They don't fit through the access panel unless you drop the fuel tank   The access hole overlaps the sending unit.

RichardSIA said:

Have to try to get it started again to see how pressure responds to revving. Static, cranking, and idle all have the same 38-40 PSI.

Could not see the gauge from the drivers seat so get to try to do it again.

I would love for it to be a dirty connector or MAF sensor, then I could return the pump and get some money back.

Sounds like a bad fuel pressure regulator or one that has lost the vacuum signal with the intake manifold.

Rubber and plastic lines and hoses do wear out and need to be replaced from time to time, but I'm sure you knew that.  :)

In reply to RichardSIA :

It would be the sort the connector and count the flashes, pre 95 doesn't have obd2 to Connect a scanner to

In reply to RichardSIA :

I don't think so. Perhaps you should start a thread about it. 

RichardSIA said:Have I ever mentioned how much I despise the over-complication of modern cars? 

Then don't buy them?  I don't believe there are any requirements that say you CAN'T have a Model T or similar.

Also, changing the air filter isn't going to do jack squat.

The fuel pressure has a spec.  Its in the Haynes book for the car.  Go buy one.  Fuel pressure should be tested at the test port with a fuel pressure tester.  If the fuel pressure doesn't change when you pull the vacuum line then you have a severe vacuum leak already OR you have a failed fuel pressure regulator.

Fix the vacuum leak or the regulator.

The MAP low signal is a sign pointing towards a vacuum leak.

Finally, this is not a modern car, its 30 years old.  Its essentially a classic and the same basic fuel injection and drivetrain was used on millions of GM cars of the same vintage. 

RichardSIA said:

 

Kind of too bad as all the bells and whistles worked, even the cruise control. First car I've gotten from a dealer in decades, I should have known better. 

 

 

LMFAO! Hold up. 

You bought a 1991 Buick Century from a dealer or did I read that wrong? 

In reply to yupididit :

And now you know...the rest of the story.

Did an upgrade to a weak pump in a gen1 Cts V a few months ago.  Not a fun job.

RichardSIA said:

Yah, I got it from a dealer for $700. Even an "Excellent condition, just has a blown head gasket/bad trans/water in oil/Etc." heap on CL starts at $2k.

Want to really laugh?

"One owner from new, my elderly friend passed away, this is a great car with only 107,000 miles, you can drive it anywhere". True, for about 500 miles. 

So as is too typical I will sort out the major issues and then sell it at break-even to be rid of it. I swear that this time I have really and truly learned my lesson, no more DD cars that rely on silicates to run!

It's a 30 year old car.  It doesn't matter what it has for fueling, things are going to be worn out and break.

it could be worse, you could be dealing with something like a 924 that has sat for decades and you have to resurrect the electrical and the CIS.  So many people fail at this and the car is tossed aside.

So at least this car can tell you what is wrong with some simple diagnosis, thanks to those electrons.

You're distrust of electronics is quaint, but it isn't doing you any favors in the long run.  

RichardSIA said:

Whatever it is, it's JUNK!

Issue is getting worse, FP is not changing, seemed to be running fine, then became hesitant and stalled out again. So I never made to town and will now be taking my all analog 1977 Land Rover to drag it back home. Sorry I ever saw  this Brick, it was supposed to be the Just Drive It car for a few months.

Not the air filter, issue remains even if the air filter is removed. As quickly as I get my all analog Chevy truck on the road this Brick goes up for sale, hope I can break even on it.

Kind of too bad as all the bells and whistles worked, even the cruise control. First car I've gotten from a dealer in decades, I should have known better. 

Rain tomorrow so this has to wait for more wrenching action.

Time to put the Spitfire back on the road!

 

Pinch off the return line briefly and verify the fuel pressure shoots high and stays there.  That will tell you if the pump is able to provide pressure.

Put a vacuum pump on the port on the fuel regulator.  Apply vacuum while watching the fuel pressure on the gauge.  It should change by a consistent rate.  If it doesn't then the fuel regulator is junk and needs to be replaced.  If it does then you're onto dealing with vacuum harness issues outside of the regulator and that would jibe with the MAP error as that is fed by the same vacuum harness.

Modern cars need a different approach and skillset to diagnose, but outside of some of the really complicated stuff, most aren't really much harder (if any) to work on than old stuff.  It's just different.  There is the advantage that in at least some cases, when a modern car has an issue, it can tell you what hurts. 

30 year old car with very low miles, hasn't been driven for a while, fuel delivery problems...checks out. I'll bet that gas doesn't smell great.

In reply to Keith Tanner :

Also, that was the tail end of GM's love affair with horrible fuel injectors.

RichardSIA said:

Need a way to test the pressure regulator that does not require buying another at $70.00 as a "Test part" that cannot be returned. No split or otherwise visibly bad vacuum hoses.

Crazy busy day tomorrow, drag the Brick home, and another half-dozen task.

Put a fuel pressure gauge on it.  Pull the pressure regulator vacuum line with the engine running.  By losing engine vacuum to the regulator, fuel pressure should increase. 

Following this thread as I am having similar issue with my Camaro. 

RichardSIA I am with you on the distain for computer controlled vehicles.

Have you changed the fuel filter yet?

JBruin said:

Following this thread as I am having similar issue with my Camaro. 

RichardSIA I am with you on the distain for computer controlled vehicles.

When we're done complaining about the neglected fuel system on this 30 year old EFI car, we can talk about the constant fuel system problems in my neglected 35 year old Mini with an SU and a mechanical pump. We can also talk about the accessibility of the pump...

In reply to RichardSIA :

What's a real car? I want one

Ok, time to step back for a minute, have a coffee and a think.

You're getting a MAF code, engine won't stay running AND it's cold this time of year.

Low system voltage can give you wonky codes and play hell with all kinds of systems.

Are you getting a slower-than-usual crank? How is your battery voltage?

Check the system voltage at the fuse panel as well as the battery. If your cables or terminals are junk, you'll get lower voltage than if you're testing right off the battery terminals.

Maybe leave it on the charger overnight and try again.

Thinking about it, have you confirmed it's actually a fuel problem and not something like a dying ignition coil?  Especially if it gets worse when the thing gets warm.