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Chris_V
Chris_V UberDork
12/27/21 1:48 p.m.
RichardSIA said:

For the record and the reading comprehension challenged, I have no problem with EV's so long as they are not mandated at the expense of ICE cars, or over-hyped as some sort of miracle cure-all, and the Fanboise cease attacking ICE car ownership.
Musk/Tesla started the ****-storm with his demands that ICE be outlawed way back when they were on the brink of going under despite incredible tax breaks, and subsidies.
Now that they appear to be financially secure they still go too far with utterly impractical demands that ICE be ended.

ICE pollutes at the tailpipe and ICE cars get dirtier every year you use them. EVs have no tailpipe emissions and as the grid gets cleaner, they also get cleaner every year you use them. Unless you're advocating for more pollution, you should want to be cutting down on it in every sector we can. EVs can be plenty of fun to drive, and are great daily drivers for way more people than they can be built for now.

As a pertinent note, among the gems I turned up in all those reports this came up.
There are at least three EV charging standards/plugs in 'current' use.
So even if you find a charging station you may not be able to use it.

A couple flaws with that mentality. First, the "three current standards" are Tesla, J1772 (everyone else) and CCS (which is essentially the J1772 with a couple extra leads on it for fast charging). ANY car that can use a CCS can also use the J1772, as you merely use the top half of the car's plug when charging on a J1772. But those are limited to Level 1 and Level 2 charging, and so are used only for slow charging and topping off at restaurants and libraries and the like. MOST current EVs use the CCS, and if you're road tripping in a modern EV, that's the one you use. And Teslas have an adapter to use the CCS/J1772, so they can ALWAYS get charged.

There was a 4th "standard" that applied to Leafs and a couple Japanese compliance cars, and that was Chaedemo. But even the modern Leafs use the J1772 and CCS.

 

Secondly, you don't run low then go looking for a compatible charger, That's dumb. You use apps like PlugShare or A Better Route Planner (though even Google Maps will shortly have this capability). All of them tell you where the chargers are, what type they are, what wattage they are (and which ones are in use or being worked on), etc. You tell the app where you're going, what kind of car you have, and it finds the applicable chargers on your route, how long it'll take to get there, and how long you'll have to charge to get to your next stop or your destination. Or wherever you might want to go. Some new EVs can find the nearest charger that is compatible in the factory nav, just by searching locally. It's. Just. Not. That. Hard. I've gone on a few 700-900 mile road trips in my Bolt and it's never been an issue.

There are still "No drive" zones in some states as the correct type EV charging stations are spread too thin.
Some of these are going the way of Betamax, will the losers get new charging systems or just scrap their EV's?

And those areas are shrinking rapidly. Even 4 years ago, there were a lot of areas that were not covered for road tripping. But even Red states like Tennessee, which had pretty much none 4 years ago, are rolling out fast charging stations so that you're never more than 25 miles from a fast charger. This spring we drove down to Greenville, TN from here in Baltimore and had no problem planning the route out with A Better Route Planner in 5 minutes that got us there without an issue.

Paid by the oil companies, I wish!

Then quit repeating disproven oil company talking points and LEARN something. 'Cause if you're not paid by them, then the other part of my statement stands.

Slippery
Slippery GRM+ Memberand UberDork
12/27/21 2:02 p.m.

I just want to know what the hell is a "Fanboise"??

Chris_V
Chris_V UberDork
12/27/21 2:07 p.m.
Slippery said:

I just want to know what the hell is a "Fanboise"??

Someone (apparently from Idaho) who doesn't denigrate a thing, and refutes insults and mistaken information about said thing (in this case, cars).

Pete. (l33t FS)
Pete. (l33t FS) GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
12/27/21 2:26 p.m.

*munches popcorn*

I remember when the big thing against privately owned Diesels was that you had a hard time finding fuel unless you went to a truck stop.  Demand created supply, and now every Jake's Gas n Lotto has a Diesel pump or four.

RichardSIA
RichardSIA Dork
12/27/21 2:35 p.m.

Went looking for an actual anti-EV lobbying group to get a job with per suggestions here wink, and could not find any. broken heart

Found plenty of EV Zealot Fanboise accusations against varied groups and companies, including Toyota!
You know, the company that makes the Prius.
Apparently they are now among the Evil Corp's for not going full EV only already. frown

Seems there are not any actual well organized anti-EV lobby organizations extant.
Or all contact info has been scrubbed from the web. Which would be very significant and alarming as an ultimate betrayal of freedom of idea's in an allegedly free society.

G'day, I'm off to buy a tire for my gross-polluter, pre-OBD, carbed, one-ton truck.
 

 

johndej
johndej Dork
12/27/21 2:42 p.m.
RichardSIA said:

G'day, I'm off to buy a tire for my gross-polluter, pre-OBDcarbed, one-ton truck.

Have a good afternoon, any pics or build info on the truck?

pointofdeparture
pointofdeparture GRM+ Memberand UltimaDork
12/27/21 2:44 p.m.
Fueled by Caffeine said:

anyway. I still don't love Tesla's. 

Yep, feel like I need to clarify this as well. Musk is a troll and a showman first/CEO second, Tesla's service model is kinda anti-consumer, the cars have some appalling UX fails and I can't help but wonder if they will be around in 20 years.

But you know what? I also greatly respect them for the innovation they brought to the table, and after spending a day tooling around the SF Bay in a Model 3 a couple months back, absolutely will admit that the car is pretty cool and that EVs are surely the driving future for the masses. Tesla was the kick in the ass that the big manufacturers needed to take EVs seriously and now some really cool stuff is on the horizon.

The Tesla cult is real but I also don't feel the need to go blue in the face trying to tell those people that they are crazy. Doesn't feel like a great use of my short time on this Earth. Let people enjoy things!

Keith Tanner
Keith Tanner GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
12/27/21 2:52 p.m.

Stefan (Forum Supporter)
Stefan (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
12/27/21 2:55 p.m.

https://i.redd.it/clkkkrvjyio51.png

tuna55
tuna55 MegaDork
12/27/21 2:57 p.m.

There's a thing here. I wish I studied up on my psychoanalysis.

Bear with me. Something akin to "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" mixed with "Who moved my cheese?", some basic knee jerk reaction to disbelieve something at the cost of believing something utterly unbelievable, save your desire to believe it.

 

9/11, JFK, COVID, the list could go on forever. I know a guy convinced Pearl Harbor was an inside job. We've all heard stories of Holocaust deniers. Many car companies were bailed out, happily making ICE vehicles, not fifteen years ago, and now we're expected to believe that the same government, the one who won't give tax breaks to Tesla because they are nonunion, is somehow scrubbing the internet to bury arguments on electric vehicles. It's hilarious and as believable as the drivel in "Who killed the electric car?", which was about fifteen years ago, but the polar opposite. The neat thing about all of these is that the further you get down the rabbit hole, the less likely you are to believe a rational argument.

There are multiple YouTube videos approaching 1MM views claiming that mountains are really ancient tree stumps harvested by aliens. The typical video from the Mayo clinic regarding COVID research  gets less than half of that.

 

Buddy, calm down. There is no authoritarian deep state trying to take away your gas engine, and there would literally be zero reason for them to do so. Everyone driving an EV today (I am on my second) wanted one very badly. Your video was a stunt. A guy was upset with a quote and blew up his car instead. The Mercedes Van link here had a quote much much higher to repair. My own FIL had a quote of $100K to repair the exhaust in his somethingsomething Cummins diesel Motorhome. I repaired it for under $500 in an afternoon. We didn't blow it up with dynamite, so we didn't get a lot of views. There are a few reputable YouTube channels about repairing Teslas. They are just cars. If you don't want them, don't buy them. Nobody is out to get you because -you are not that important-, and neither am I. Read up on Hanlon's Razor, our government couldn't do half of the things you think they are doing now. Not because of laws, but because those things are really hard. It's going to be OK.

tuna55
tuna55 MegaDork
12/27/21 2:57 p.m.
pointofdeparture said:
Fueled by Caffeine said:

anyway. I still don't love Tesla's. 

Yep, feel like I need to clarify this as well. Musk is a troll and a showman first/CEO second, Tesla's service model is kinda anti-consumer, the cars have some appalling UX fails and I can't help but wonder if they will be around in 20 years.

But you know what? I also greatly respect them for the innovation they brought to the table, and after spending a day tooling around the SF Bay in a Model 3 a couple months back, absolutely will admit that the car is pretty cool and that EVs are surely the driving future for the masses. Tesla was the kick in the ass that the big manufacturers needed to take EVs seriously and now some really cool stuff is on the horizon.

The Tesla cult is real but I also don't feel the need to go blue in the face trying to tell those people that they are crazy. Doesn't feel like a great use of my short time on this Earth. Let people enjoy things!

I agree very very much.

Stefan (Forum Supporter)
Stefan (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
12/27/21 3:06 p.m.
RichardSIA said:

Went looking for an actual anti-EV lobbying group to get a job with per suggestions here wink, and could not find any. broken heart

Found plenty of EV Zealot Fanboise accusations against varied groups and companies, including Toyota!
You know, the company that makes the Prius.
Apparently they are now among the Evil Corp's for not going full EV only already. frown

Seems there are not any actual well organized anti-EV lobby organizations extant.
Or all contact info has been scrubbed from the web. Which would be very significant and alarming as an ultimate betrayal of freedom of idea's in an allegedly free society.

G'day, I'm off to buy a tire for my gross-polluter, pre-OBD, carbed, one-ton truck.
 

 

Um, I guess SEMA and the Oil (sorry Energy) companies don't have lobbyists?

Or are they not producing click-bait youtube videos and online article that match the algorithm that Google put together from your searches?

Honestly, if you'd drop the snarky BS comments about, well, EVERYTHING related to the modern world we wouldn't mind your posts so much and your builds/posts would actually be interesting to read and contribute to.  So yes we would love to read about your truck and your various builds, we just don't want to wade through all of the wannabe triggering bullE36 M3 to read it.

Stefan (Forum Supporter)
Stefan (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
12/27/21 3:12 p.m.
tuna55 said:
pointofdeparture said:
Fueled by Caffeine said:

anyway. I still don't love Tesla's. 

Yep, feel like I need to clarify this as well. Musk is a troll and a showman first/CEO second, Tesla's service model is kinda anti-consumer, the cars have some appalling UX fails and I can't help but wonder if they will be around in 20 years.

But you know what? I also greatly respect them for the innovation they brought to the table, and after spending a day tooling around the SF Bay in a Model 3 a couple months back, absolutely will admit that the car is pretty cool and that EVs are surely the driving future for the masses. Tesla was the kick in the ass that the big manufacturers needed to take EVs seriously and now some really cool stuff is on the horizon.

The Tesla cult is real but I also don't feel the need to go blue in the face trying to tell those people that they are crazy. Doesn't feel like a great use of my short time on this Earth. Let people enjoy things!

I agree very very much.

Yup, he's a terrible person and pushed the real innovators out of the company and is now just another rich person with too much money and little basis in reality.

Much like issues with entertainers who turn out to actually be terrible people because they've done terrible things, its up to each person to decide in their minds how they want to separate the person from their products and whether they want to partake.  What we can't control is the impact of those products and people on the world as a whole.

californiamilleghia
californiamilleghia UltraDork
12/27/21 3:18 p.m.

In reply to Pete. (l33t FS) :

This was why VW did not sell Diesel Golfs in Mexico years ago , 

Nice people did not want to go to dirty truck stops :)

No idea if that has changed  by now !

tuna55
tuna55 MegaDork
12/27/21 3:22 p.m.
Stefan (Forum Supporter) said:
tuna55 said:
pointofdeparture said:
Fueled by Caffeine said:

anyway. I still don't love Tesla's. 

Yep, feel like I need to clarify this as well. Musk is a troll and a showman first/CEO second, Tesla's service model is kinda anti-consumer, the cars have some appalling UX fails and I can't help but wonder if they will be around in 20 years.

But you know what? I also greatly respect them for the innovation they brought to the table, and after spending a day tooling around the SF Bay in a Model 3 a couple months back, absolutely will admit that the car is pretty cool and that EVs are surely the driving future for the masses. Tesla was the kick in the ass that the big manufacturers needed to take EVs seriously and now some really cool stuff is on the horizon.

The Tesla cult is real but I also don't feel the need to go blue in the face trying to tell those people that they are crazy. Doesn't feel like a great use of my short time on this Earth. Let people enjoy things!

I agree very very much.

Yup, he's a terrible person and pushed the real innovators out of the company and is now just another rich person with too much money and little basis in reality.

Much like issues with entertainers who turn out to actually be terrible people because they've done terrible things, its up to each person to decide in their minds how they want to separate the person from their products and whether they want to partake.  What we can't control is the impact of those products and people on the world as a whole.

There's a thing there, too. I won't [such and such] because [said event/person in history did thing x] basically means you cannot do or buy anything, ever.

Chris_V
Chris_V UberDork
12/27/21 3:59 p.m.
RichardSIA said:

Went looking for an actual anti-EV lobbying group to get a job with per suggestions here wink, and could not find any. broken heart

Found plenty of EV Zealot Fanboise accusations against varied groups and companies, including Toyota!
You know, the company that makes the Prius.
Apparently they are now among the Evil Corp's for not going full EV only already. frown

Seems there are not any actual well organized anti-EV lobby organizations extant.
Or all contact info has been scrubbed from the web. Which would be very significant and alarming as an ultimate betrayal of freedom of idea's in an allegedly free society.

G'day, I'm off to buy a tire for my gross-polluter, pre-OBD, carbed, one-ton truck.
 

 

I think it's swell that you refused to discuss any of the points I refuted with facts, and instead resort to the old "fanboise" trope and ran off. So maybe the last line in my last post was ALSO true and you DO refuse to actually learn anything.

Brett_Murphy (Agent of Chaos)
Brett_Murphy (Agent of Chaos) GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
12/27/21 4:02 p.m.

Let me get this straight:


A guy gets a second hand, early model Tesla that turns out to have some problems after he only drove it about 1500 kms
The repair cost was a substantial bit of cash- like more than 50% of the value
If he wanted to pay, the repair shop would have to ask Tesla if it was even OK to fix the car at all
He apparently decided he was sour about the whole thing
He teamed up with Pommijätkät, a Finnish group that blows stuff up on Youtube, to blow up his car. Maybe he got paid? I don't know.

Queue E36 M3 show here.

Is that recap accurate so far? laugh
 

Fueled by Caffeine
Fueled by Caffeine MegaDork
12/27/21 4:41 p.m.
Slippery said:

I just want to know what the hell is a "Fanboise"??

He misspelled the name of a Lambic. 
 

@op it's framboise you peasant. 

Opti
Opti Dork
12/27/21 4:44 p.m.

Im  not trying to defend this guy, but people keep saying no one is coming for your ICE cars. California has already said no ICE sales after 2035. Other states are debating ICE sales bans sooner than that. Western Europe has quite a few of them.

So yah maybe tomorrow no one is coming for your ICE, but that doesnt mean that the government at some level isnt trying to ban them in the future. Maybe they arent coming after "his" ICE, but they may be coming after his ability to buy a new ICE.

Again Im not trying to defend everything he's saying, some of it seems to be a little "tin foil hat"-y (which I have been known to have an affinity towards some conspiracy theories), but there is something there.

Saying no one is coming for you ICE, is just as wrong as saying there is a deep state conspiracy to end ICE. The truth is in the middle and it may lean to one side or another.

Tom_Spangler (Forum Supporter)
Tom_Spangler (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand PowerDork
12/27/21 5:02 p.m.
pointofdeparture said:
Fueled by Caffeine said:

anyway. I still don't love Tesla's. 

Yep, feel like I need to clarify this as well. Musk is a troll and a showman first/CEO second, Tesla's service model is kinda anti-consumer, the cars have some appalling UX fails and I can't help but wonder if they will be around in 20 years.

But you know what? I also greatly respect them for the innovation they brought to the table, and after spending a day tooling around the SF Bay in a Model 3 a couple months back, absolutely will admit that the car is pretty cool and that EVs are surely the driving future for the masses. Tesla was the kick in the ass that the big manufacturers needed to take EVs seriously and now some really cool stuff is on the horizon.

The Tesla cult is real but I also don't feel the need to go blue in the face trying to tell those people that they are crazy. Doesn't feel like a great use of my short time on this Earth. Let people enjoy things!

That perfectly sums up my opinion of Tesla. I don't like the cars, but they do have some cool aspects to them. I don't like the company, but I'm glad they exist. We're about to get some truly kick-ass EVs in the next few years, and that never would have happened if Tesla hadn't come along and kicked the legacy carmakers' asses. 

The only area where I differ is that I do think they are here to stay. That cult is REAL, and I don't see them giving up on Tesla any time soon.

Fueled by Caffeine
Fueled by Caffeine MegaDork
12/27/21 5:25 p.m.

In reply to pointofdeparture :

I agree with you. And next time I'm in San Bruno for work. I'll buy you a beer. 

psteav (Forum Supporter)
psteav (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand Dork
12/27/21 5:59 p.m.
RichardSIA said:

Went looking for an actual anti-EV lobbying group to get a job with per suggestions here wink, and could not find any. broken heart

Found plenty of EV Zealot Fanboise accusations against varied groups and companies, including Toyota!
You know, the company that makes the Prius.
Apparently they are now among the Evil Corp's for not going full EV only already. frown

Seems there are not any actual well organized anti-EV lobby organizations extant.
Or all contact info has been scrubbed from the web. Which would be very significant and alarming as an ultimate betrayal of freedom of idea's in an allegedly free society.

G'day, I'm off to buy a tire for my gross-polluter, pre-OBD, carbed, one-ton truck.
 

 

Tombstone Bye GIFs | Tenor

Might I recommend taking your ball and going home?  I heard there were some goats crossing your bridge earlier.

minivan_racer
minivan_racer UberDork
12/27/21 6:15 p.m.

Caperix
Caperix New Reader
12/27/21 10:42 p.m.

Breaking news used luxury cars are expensive to maintain

EV's have some very good uses, and some areas that there are better options for.  I think of it like battery vs pneumatic tools, it was not that long ago that battery tools were just drills and screw drivers with bad battery life.  Now every year new battery tools come out with equal or better performance than their pneumatic competition, I can't remember the last time I used a pneumatic ratchet.   There are some tools like air hammers that there are not battery replacements for, but not everyone needs those.

Gas vs EV should be the same, use the proper tool for the job.  I don't like the California ban new gas vehicles approach, and I do get a little tin foil hat feeling about the diesel scandal.  My main issues with EV's are right to repair worrys.  I would still like to see some fun hybrids come out.  The thought of a high revving engine with an electric motor for instant torque gives me happy thoughts, make it with a manual please.

RichardSIA
RichardSIA Dork
12/28/21 2:55 a.m.

Despite lengthy search I did not relocate the old article regarding specific oil wells recharging.
No real surprise as the 'Web generates so many new articles daily that items from a couple of years ago get pushed down hundreds of pages.

But I did come across these, interesting as it seems the "Fossil" in Fossil Fuel may be a misnomer.

"Last week new NASA photographs proved methane lakes exist on Saturn’s moon, Titan, showing that such hydrocarbons (or so-called ‘fossil fuels’) are seemingly plentiful in our solar system.  This startling discovery turns on its head the long-held western belief that petroleum is a limited resource, because it is primarily derived (we had been told) from the fossilized remains of dead dinosaurs and rotted carbon-based vegetation".

https://principia-scientific.com/swedish-scientists-geologists-fossil-fuel-theory-busted/

https://principia-scientific.com/russians-nasa-discredit-fossil-fuel-theory-demise-of-junk-co2-science/

https://rense.com/politics6/replent.htm

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