I don't get it - what's so good about 911s?

Wrench,

I did a lot of research on the 911's. See my previous thread. It is a very rewarding car, not because its fast but because it requires skill. The car is over 30 years old so it will have problems and it is a "luxury" brand so stuff will be expensive to replace. It really is a car for someone who dreamed about it or made it an aspiration to own one. I don't know how old you are, me I am 27. I love the look of the car but am too young to have hung pictures of it on my wall. I never developed that emotional attachment. Something that when you read through this thread, is echoed in owner's post.

Hope that makes sense. I am drinking my morning cup now. I understand where you are coming from. I think the answer your looking for is a difference between enjoying racing and enjoying the drive.

wannabewrench wrote: I guess I better try to bum a ride off a 911 driver at the next autocross. Looks like I'm outnumber here with my dislike of the car.

Don't bum a ride at an autocross - go to a racetrack and hop a ride. They are best sampled in their proper element.

ReverendDexter wrote:

Chris_V wrote: Never heard an early air cooled 6 cyl with sport exhaust and open triple throat carbs at full song, then, have you? Sounds like Le Mans. I LOVED to zing my '69 S up to 8k rpm for that reason alone.

No, the most "uncorked" one I've ever heard was at American LeMans at Infineon back when the Chevy was still campaigning the C5R.

Then you didn't hear an early air cooled small bore 6 through carbs. A completely different sound. It'd be like saying that C5R sound sucked because you heard your brother's cousin's ratty old small block Chevy powered pickup go by with no mufflers.

Rangeball wrote: I don't know how old you are, me I am 27. I love the look of the car but am too young to have hung pictures of it on my wall. I never developed that emotional attachment. Something that when you read through this thread, is echoed in owner's post.

Emotional attachment is a huge reason why I love the 911. It was the poster car that I drooled over at the gradeschool book fairs, when the other boys were fawning over the Lamborghini Countach or Ferrari Testarossa. A lot of my attachment stems from the fact that I'm related to the Porsche family (indirectly, but via a bloodline, not marriage), so it was always my "dream car" for as long as I can remember.

Now, it has been entirely too long for David Wallens to have owned a 911 and not posted pictures.

wannabewrench wrote: Why bother posting if all you're gonna do is put up a picture of that expensive to maintain, hard to drive, gas guzzling, no AC psudo 4 seater? Why don't you tells what you love about it?

Just out of curiosity, what cars do you own?

Have only owned my 911 ('70) for 3yrs or so and only driven 3 autocrosses and a decent number of backroad miles. No track time...yet. Fantastic car with fantastic sounds and fantastic 'feel'.

Anyways 911's don't spin. Mid engined cars SPIN. If you only read old car and driver or road and track articles about 911's and the 'famous handling fault' you'll never get the full story (or the correct one IMO).

At anything short of jailable speeds on public roads 911's are just flat out silly fun and 'spin' never even enters your mind. The older the car the greater the fun at lower speeds.

Who cares if it's the fastest car on the course? No matter what you have there is always somebody faster. Nah, i'd say what matters is how big an effing grin' you have when you finish your run. I know my grin barely fits in my helmet

In the small group i autocross with a 911 is top car. It is a purpose built 3.6 powered longhood RSR'ified monster. There is also a ratty old RX7 that turns amazingly good times and keeps up with the fastest boxsters. Sounds like crap, looks like crap and doesn't even appear to be going that fast but just the same the car must be a blast to drive.

I just bought a 2003 Cooper S for cheap. It's beat up but I thought it would be good car to learn to be a mech. Before that I drove my parents old Taurus to school.

Anyways 911's don't spin. Mid engined cars SPIN. If you only read old car and driver or road and track articles about 911's and the 'famous handling fault' you'll never get the full story (or the correct one IMO).

Methinks 911 owners protesteth too much on the spin issue. It's simple physics that a big rearward weight bias will want to oversteer. Obviously it can be controlled with proper technique and/or engineering, but to deny that it was ever an issue is just silly.

Somebody above asked, a bit tersely, what I liked about my 911. Well... I was raised on American V8 iron and thought EVERYTHING else was irrelevant until I was exposed to the world beyond Detroit in my buddy's '81 Fiat Spider back in the day. The idea of the sports car was now something I understood and appreciated. I have since owned Mustangs, Camaros, an Alfa, a MR2 Turbo, and a Probe GT. I currently own a 260Z, a 350Z, a TR6, and the '88 911. All of them are cool for different reasons. The 911, in particular, speaks to me. It is almost "alive" when driven. It steers, rides, sounds, smells differently then any other car. Yes, any number of cars are faster, get better mileage, etc. If you are that objective you will never appreciate the 911 or any number of life's other offerings.

kreb wrote:

Anyways 911's don't spin. Mid engined cars SPIN. If you only read old car and driver or road and track articles about 911's and the 'famous handling fault' you'll never get the full story (or the correct one IMO).

Methinks 911 owners protesteth too much on the spin issue. It's simple physics that a big rearward weight bias will want to oversteer. Obviously it can be controlled with proper technique and/or engineering, but to deny that it was ever an issue is just silly.

Conversely, to constantly repeat that "911s spin easily" based on stories of early, short wheelbase cars with tiny 5.5" wide wheels and early radial sports car tires, is just silly.

wannabewrench wrote: I just bought a 2003 Cooper S for cheap. It's beat up but I thought it would be good car to learn to be a mech. Before that I drove my parents old Taurus to school.

Just curious: What's a cheap Cooper S go for these days?

Woody wrote:

wannabewrench wrote: I just bought a 2003 Cooper S for cheap. It's beat up but I thought it would be good car to learn to be a mech. Before that I drove my parents old Taurus to school.

Just curious: What's a cheap Cooper S go for these days?

Auction prices are $8.5k to about $11k for the MY 2003 & 2004.

wannabewrench wrote: Why bother posting if all you're gonna do is put up a picture of that expensive to maintain, hard to drive, gas guzzling, no AC psudo 4 seater? Why don't you tells what you love about it?

1. Not expensive to maintain(unless you are referencing lemons cars).
2. Hard to drive is a plus in my book as explained in my earlier post.
3. Gas guzzling? No, especially when compared to cars of similar performance.
4. AC available for most years.
5. The pseudo back seats are usually flipped down and allow for a nice storage area or seating for the very little in a true sports car.
6. Myself and others have covered the pluses ad nauseum over the last few pages of posts.

Winston wrote: . Emotional attachment is a huge reason why I love the 911. It was the poster car that I drooled over at the gradeschool book fairs, when the other boys were fawning over the Lamborghini Countach or Ferrari Testarossa. A lot of my attachment stems from the fact that I'm related to the Porsche family (indirectly, but via a bloodline, not marriage), so it was always my "dream car" for as long as I can remember. Now, it has been entirely too long for David Wallens to have owned a 911 and not posted pictures.

It might take him a while to remove the bra, the "This is my other Car" license plate frame, the pile of IZOD polos in the back seat,the chromed Fuchs(with hand painted centers!) the sheepskin seat covers and the yacht club parking stickers.

abumason wrote: okay, looks like I can't quote properly. David - where are the pictures and details?

I'll post a photo below, but short answer: The car is lovely. It makes wonderful sounds. I love the throttle response. It looks awesome. I love the gauges. Passing motorists give me the thumbs up. It makes me smile.

On a related note, I drove Carl's XKE today. What another amazing car. Is it the fastest car? Does it have great a/c? Who cares?

Look for me tomorrow on US 31 heading south. I'm sure I'll still be smiling.

I detailed this 996 earlier this spring...

At normal speeds, it's amazing how "normal" the 996 feels. The build quality on it is just spectacular, though. While I was working on it, all I was thinking is "damn, I can see why this thing is so expensive".

I've been flirting with these cars for half my life. Usually, I find a basket case in my price range, but have been smart enough to walk away from it. It's funny that 25yrs ago I looked at 67-71s with no floorboards left, and nowdays I look at 84s with broken head studs..

The ones I've driven (another reason to join SCCA or NASA or whatever, you'll make good friends that will let you drive their cars) were an absolute ball to drive. They come from one of those eras where the engine technology had outgrown the tire technology, and I have to admit it was a clever approach to a solution.
I guess the real 911s (not the modern 993/996 that are much better cars) are now passing into nostalgia land, but I'd still like one. I wouldn't expect the old Triumphs I used to have to beat a Miata around the track without serious mods, but that's not what I'd buy them back for.

Maybe it's just a sign of my age. I still want one..not to be the fastest anymore, but just because I've always wanted one.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CRQzHwti5jw

And I never had posters of "exotic" street cars on my walls as a kid. Even back then, nothing but race cars. Lauda in the 312T, Hunt in the McL M23...I may have had a 935 up there, tho.

David, I'm jealous. Maybe after my daughter finishes college?

David S. Wallens wrote:

Ah, you didn't have the pic up when I wrote the other post..

Now all I wanna do is call ya an SOB. I'm gonna be on Craigslist all night..

Here's mine. 85 Carrera Targa with 69k miles. Only modifications are a GHL exhaust and lowering to euro spec ride height.

As someone that has driven HUNDREDS of 911's in every form from the '60's to the late 90's cars, I use to work at a Porsche dealership. I can honestly say that if you have to ask you just don't understand about the 911.

That being said as its been mentioned if you try and buy one on the cheap expect to pay double at least what you paid to get it sorted. A well sorted 911 is a religious experience when you drive it. A 930 even more so. We had a customer with a race prepped 930 that let me take that car around PIR at speed. Sure you have to be a good driver to keep rear end from swinging around like a hammer head but this isn't like driving your momma's civic.

When I bought mine, it had just been pulled out of a barn, and was sitting at a small dealer in N.H. It was oxidized (Guards Red), needed to be jumped to start, but had a great interior and no rust anywhere.. I found a huge mouse nest under the spare tire(abandoned), but it fired right up, didn't leak or smoke, and ran sweet. Cliff notes-see Readers Ride. Before the dealer, who personally knew the owner, would give it to me he wanted to go through it. Two weeks later it was delivered to my house with two new tires, cleaned up, new brake hoses and brakes all around, fresh oil and filter, new air filter, new belts, new pop off added, tensioner checked, and valves adjusted. After it was delivered, we took it to a Porsche Club affair and had the mechanics go through it. Everything, including oil pressure and compression, were excellent. The only problem was a bad ground for the oil pressure gauge. At some point the car had been repainted and while not show car quality, it's very good for a driver.That was a year ago April, and I've had over 10K miles of trouble free pleasure. Total was $7900 plus $300 for transport. When people say a good one can't be had for under $20K, and anything under $10K is junk, I say kiss my grits. If I blow it up tomorrow, I can part it for what I paid. It takes work, but good ones are out there at decent prices.

Back to the topic of 911s spinning...

I loved my 911. However, I'm far faster in my Boxster.

I think I'm faster in the Boxster than I was in the 911 because of my own fear of spinning that shiny little über-Beetle as opposed to anything the car actually did wrong. My acute awareness of the 911's reputation always held me back from pushing it harder than maybe 7/10ths.

I'm sure that, given enough high-speed seat time, I could have been just a fast in the 911 as in the Boxster - I did learn to drive in properly-evil rear-engined Beetle...and I badly want another 911!

True minimac just like any car out there deals can be had but they are getting rare in the 911 world.

Actually once you get use to what will cause the rear of a 911 to come loose you can push things harder and sometimes use it to your advantage. However I have always liked the feeling of a properly sorted 944 chasis better, they are much more "planted".

rebelgtp wrote: True minimac just like any car out there deals can be had but they are getting rare in the 911 world.

I would argue the opposite, the economy has lowered the value of all "weekend" vehicles. It still takes time and patience, but there are many deals to be had if you have cash in hand.

gerlando wrote: ...I would argue the opposite, the economy has lowered the value of all "weekend" vehicles. It still takes time and patience, but there are many deals to be had if you have cash in hand.

True. While both of us always liked the 911s, we actually went to check out a Saab convertible. While looking at the Saab, we spotted the Porsche. Right spot at the right time? I dunno, but we were prepared to buy and made the deal right then. Fortunately we were dealing with a honest dealer(a rare breed!) and he wouldn't let the car go until he was certain it was up to his standards.