Okay Hive, Ever Had Anyone Threaten Legal Action After Buying A Car From You?

I recently sold a vehicle private party and, unfortunately, they ran into some mechanical issues shortly thereafter. I had them bring it back, we did a fix and sent them on their way.

Flash forward a couple days and they ran into another mechanical issue and are wanting to return it.

I am disappointed in the behavior, as I was honest and upfront. They are threatening legal action, which I do not believe can amount to much, but figured I would check with this group.

I signed the title and signed a bill of sale (didn't get a copy myself, dang it). They are saying they did not sign yet. Not sure if that changes anything...

This has definitely jaded me from selling private party and possibly meeting cool new people along the way. This is in FL by the way.

How much money are we talking here? Was it a cheaper car with no known problems when you sold it?

Kinda sounds like once you helped them once already they think they can demand whatever from you

Safely under $10k, no known problems and all records from day one...

Depends on the state, and what you do for a living.  In many states, if you're an individual, no association with an automobile business, you have no warranty obligation, it's buyer beware.  If you're a dealer, used car guy, repair facility, then you could have an issue.  In Connecticut, the assumption was a private individual would have no idea something was about to be wrong, so no liability.  Check with your local laws, and consult with a lawyer.  Even if you're right, you still have to defend if sued.

Are they saying they haven't signed the title yet and it is still in your name? If that is the case then I wouldn't think they could sue you but you do still own the car. 

If they have signed the title and registered it there is nothing they can do to you, it is their problem now. 

I had someone threaten to sue me once over an $800 Shadow that needed a radiator a month after I sold it, that was rather funny. I did a quick search to see if FL laws are the same as OH. 

Private Sales 
You may save money by buying a used car from a private individual, such as through the classified section of your local newspaper. However, you should be aware that private sellers do not have to provide you with a Buyer's Guide, and do not provide implied warranties under state law. Therefore, it may be even more important to obtain warranty promises in writing and to obtain an independent inspection prior to purchase.

http://myfloridalegal.com/pages.nsf/main/2752ee5b7dc22ff785256cc9004ff9b4!opendocument

Whether they signed the title or bill of sale is irrelevant. I mean, they can return the car and title to you, but hey, I guess they also didn't sign anything saying they gave you any money, eh? ;)

As noted though, I think most states are full "buyer beware" or "as-is" from private sellers. If someone buys an old/used car the assumption is that things will go wrong at some point. Assuming those things were functional when they drove it off the lot, I don't see how they coudl possibly prove they didn't cause the issue or whatever. 

That said, they could go rob a bank with the car and pin it on you, since you still own it technically ;)

car39 said:

Depends on the state, and what you do for a living.  In many states, if you're an individual, no association with an automobile business, you have no warranty obligation, it's buyer beware.  If you're a dealer, used car guy, repair facility, then you could have an issue.  In Connecticut, the assumption was a private individual would have no idea something was about to be wrong, so no liability.  Check with your local laws, and consult with a lawyer.  Even if you're right, you still have to defend if sued.

No association with anything car related, just a private individual selling a car to another.

People are stupid sometimes, i had someone want to return an amp i sold them after a year because "it was dustier inside than it should be"

ffs

EvanB said:

Are they saying they haven't signed the title yet and it is still in your name? If that is the case then I wouldn't think they could sue you but you do still own the car. 

If they have signed the title and registered it there is nothing they can do to you, it is their problem now. 

I had someone threaten to sue me once over an $800 Shadow that needed a radiator a month after I sold it, that was rather funny. I did a quick search to see if FL laws are the same as OH. 

Private Sales 
You may save money by buying a used car from a private individual, such as through the classified section of your local newspaper. However, you should be aware that private sellers do not have to provide you with a Buyer's Guide, and do not provide implied warranties under state law. Therefore, it may be even more important to obtain warranty promises in writing and to obtain an independent inspection prior to purchase.

http://myfloridalegal.com/pages.nsf/main/2752ee5b7dc22ff785256cc9004ff9b4!opendocument

I was thinking along the same lines. They have not signed the title but we both signed a Bill of Sale, except he only had a copy for himself (I use them as a buyer, but never have as a seller, again, my learning the hard way).

So, to me, either he owns it via the Bill of Sale or he "misplaced" the Bill of Sale and there is no proof of a transaction, while I still own the car.

I assumed it would be considered buyer beware, being greater than 7 years old and having 6 digits on the odometer, but again kicking myself for not writing "As-Is" on the title. Coulda, woulda, shoulda... 

Tell him your legal department won't allow you to talk to anyone threatening legal proceedings.

irish44j said:

That said, they could go rob a bank with the car and pin it on you, since you still own it technically ;)

 

That actually happened to me ! Sold a Camry for $400, a couple months later we get a registered letter from the police in a town an hour away saying our car was involved in a crime. The alleged criminals never transferred the title. We had a copy of the bill of sale and I think we mailed in our part of the old title so we were good.

I mean, I just spent 3x as much on my new-to-me vehicle, typically one of the most reliable on the planet (Lexus GX), and had to drop $3k on the transmission 1 month later, but I'm not going back to the dealer asking for recourse. I bought it, my problem, I can deal with that. Ugh.

BlindPirate said:

irish44j said:

That said, they could go rob a bank with the car and pin it on you, since you still own it technically ;)

 

That actually happened to me ! Sold a Camry for $400, a couple months later we get a registered letter from the police in a town an hour away saying our car was involved in a crime. The alleged criminals never transferred the title. We had a copy of the bill of sale and I think we mailed in our part of the old title so we were good.

Happened to my dad. Sort of. A guy bought a Jeep from him to flip. He fixed it, never titled it and put it out for sale. Some guys came to test drive it and left their car behind. The Jeep was eventually found abandoned, traced back to my dad, he sent them to the guy who had bought it who was already dealing with the police because the car left behind, stolen, was used in a bank robbery. It was all very confusing. 

I, being paranoid, always do a bill of sale for both me (the seller) and for the buyer.  Each gets a copy with original signatures.  Something like this:

Date

I, "Seller name" do hereby sell, bargain, and convey all right, title, and interest I may have in one "Vehicle year, Vehicle maker, Vehicle model, VIN #_________ to "Buyer name".  Sale price is $XX,XXX, receipt of which is hereby acknowledged. 

This vehicle is sold as is, where is, with no warranty either expressed or implied.  The seller acknowledges that they have inspected the vehicle and accept all faults that may exist as a condition of the sale.

Seller Signature                                                                             Buyer Signature
Drivers License #                                                                            Drivers License #

In my state, the title has a notice of sale for the DMV that either gets mailed in or dropped at the local DMV office.  I try to do one or the other the day I sell the vehicle.

^^This. In Virginia you have to report sale of a vehicle. I did so online immediately after I dropped the car off at his house, as well as canceling my insurance. 

Similarly, in California the title has attached to it a "release of liability".  You as the seller fill it out with the buyer's info and mail it in.  I think it's mainly intended as a check on how much the buyer paid for it (so that they can charge him sales tax), but it also serves the purpose of officially notifying the state that you sold the car to someone, even if that person never gets around to filing any paperwork.

When I bought my '95 Probe GT from the Ford dealer in San Diego, I traded in an '87 Taurus wagon.  That wagon was apparently send across the border into Mexico (not unusual for high-mile trade-ins in San Diego, I'm told), because I later got a letter from US Customs, informing me that the vehicle had been seized at the border for violation of US Code section <whatever> (I looked it up, drug smuggling) and that since I was the last registered owner of record they were advising me it would be sold at auction on such and such a date.  I made haste to send them a copy of my release of liability and pointed them at the Ford dealer to whom I had traded it in -- I wanted no further part of it. :)

A friend of mine sold a Mazda 6 a few years back in California. Everything was done the right way, problems disclosed, etc... the buyer came back a week later claiming the engine blew up. No evidence just a threat of legal action. After some pushback they weren’t heard from again. This was in CA. Some people are looking for someone to take advantage of. If they want to sue they have to put in the work and I would be willing to bet most wont. 

Refuse all further contact, unless it's to actually initiate the lawsuit. In my opinion, when someone makes even a passing reference to a lawsuit, they lose the right to any other interaction.

The first step in Florida for a small claims action is to send a demand letter. This would likely be done by certified mail, since he would need proof of you receiving it. If this hasn't happened, it's just noise. 

If he sues you without cause, I believe you can countersue for legal costs.

My take on this is that it's an annoyance, but nothing serious. Don't agree to anything, or even allow any more communication, as it's much more likely to be an attempt to extort money with the threat of legal action.

 Stand your ground!

Floating Doc said:

Refuse all further contact, unless it's to actually initiate the lawsuit. In my opinion, when someone makes even a passing reference to a lawsuit, they lose the right to any other interaction.

The first step in Florida for a small claims action is to send a demand letter. This would likely be done by certified mail, since he would need proof of you receiving it. If this hasn't happened, it's just noise. 

If he sues you without cause, I believe you can countersue for legal costs.

My take on this is that it's an annoyance, but nothing serious. Don't agree to anything, or even allow any more communication, as it's much more likely to be an attempt to extort money with the threat of legal action.

 Stand your ground!

Thank you Floating Doc, this feedback is greatly appreciated and helps me understand what to expect if he is in fact serious about his intentions. Appreciate the thoughtful response. My prediction is that it is more noise than action, but just want to be prepared.

I would just light the motherberkeleyer on fire.

Dusterbd13 is my spirit animal.

stanger_missle said:

I would just light the motherberkeleyer on fire.

Dusterbd13 is my spirit animal.

In this case, the car is already sold. Still, that's the best comment on this thread.

Here in Arizona, you go online and type in the VIN and the day you sold the car - don't even have to list the buyer, IIRC.

I'd be surprised if there isn't something in each state where you can note with the DMV that you sold a vehicle.  So I looked here: https://www.flhsmv.gov/safety-center/consumer-education/selling-vehicle-florida/

I'd probably start there, and keep notes of texts or emails and such of the transaction....

I'm not versed on your state's laws, but you have the cash, he has a not signed ownership. I think you're in the driver's seat. Realistically, does this person have the money to sue you? If you have truly been as honest as you suggest, then I don't think you need to feel bad.

I believe where I live if a transmission failed within 30 days, the dealer would be required to fix it. Private sales are a different matter.

It sounds like the tail light warranty has expired. 

The only other thing that I can think of is that in CA, if you sell a car without smogging it and it fails the test for the new owner, they can return the car. I don't  think you have that in Florida.