STM317 said:
frenchyd said:
$300 a month ( which she's earning from us) against maybe $200 a month for a used car, plus gas required maintenance ( oil changes etc) and the AAA membership.
What does a $200 budget buy? $50 in gas $20 for maintenance budget, AAA membership of $10 leaves $120 for payment. That's somewhere around $2600-2700 depending on interest rates.
Properly selected and with better than average luck, she might find something that will last the payments without getting too expensive.
Add $100 and she won't have to worry about any of that.
It's not just adding $100/mo though. You're comparing total cost of ownership of the ICE used vehicle with just the hypothetical monthly payment for the EV. It's going to cost her more than $300/mo to actually own and operate the EV. I think a few people have run the numbers already and a $300/mo payment seems optimistic in the first place. Especially if you're not able to discount the price with the tax credit at the point of sale.
On top of that, she'll need full coverage insurance. This estimator is specific for MN and puts the cost at $5k/yr minimum and $7k average for an inexperienced female driver with zero credit history. That's $400-550/mo just for insurance.
And annual registration costs will be higher because it will be both brand new and an EV. MN charges $10+ 1.25% of the value of the vehicle to register. PLUS a flat $75/yr for an EV. So if the car is worth $20k in year 1, it will cost her $335 just to register it and that's not going to drop very much each year. For comparison, a $10k Corolla would cost $135 to register which is $200/yr that can go towards maintenance.
Which leads me to my next point. Even if an EV doesn't require oil changes, they do still need maintenance. An ICE car probably does 1-2 oil changes per year @ $45 per. The $75 Extra EV registration fee will offset most or all of that, and may even be more if she only needs 1 oil change per year. The Bolt is also heavier than a comparable ICE. That extra weight coupled with the high torque and regen braking will consume tires faster than a comparable small ICE hatchback. The EV still needs washer fluid, brake maintenance, suspension refreshes, wiper blades, etc. And that's assuming nothing like a windshield gets damaged and needs out of pocket replacement or a headlight goes out.
So $300/mo payment + $400/mo insurance + $28/mo registration + $10/mo maintenance + $10/mo charging (One trip to a public fast charger could blow this line of the budget) = $748/mo as a rough estimate for the monthly cost to own AND operate a $20k EV.
Also, will she be able to park on campus? It seems like parking passes may not be guaranteed to all students. And if they are granted, it's going to cost anywhere from $77-143 per month just for a parking pass!
I think we can all see that your intentions are well meaning. But there's not enough cushion in this girl's finances to reasonably own a $20k vehicle, EV or not. And if it were my family member I'd be concerned about adding stress and distraction to an already stressful and busy life.
$400 -550 a month for insurance? You convinced me. She can't afford to go to college. I mean insurance is going to bankrupt her. New or used if she has to finance a car the bank will require full coverage.
It's 3 hours on the buses round trip for a 10 mile trip ( I guessed wrong). No direct routes, 4 transfers each way.
I realize that you have enough money saved to buy a good used car. But she wasted hers on stuff girls her age want. ( which doesn't include cars).
Then parking passes? Are they cheaper for used cars than new? By the way she has the parking pass. Probably something to do with going to college at age 16. Her school paying her tuition and books.
Oh she just mentioned she needed to fill up the truck and it cost her $45 for the week. ( probably went places other than direct to college and back). At that rate it's $180 a month for gas. ( was here cleaning the house)
You really should ask Tuna55 what it costs to own his Bolt. He's has actual ownership experience .
But brakes don't wear on EV's at least not like ICE's because they have regenerative braking where They put charge back into the batteries in slowing down instead of wasting that energy in heat.
One pedal driving is more the norm.
In reply to Datsun310Guy :
I like the reliability of Toyota. I'd consider a plug in Prius but they seem to be really expensive used.
STM317
PowerDork
9/10/22 5:36 p.m.
frenchyd said:
STM317 said:
frenchyd said:
$300 a month ( which she's earning from us) against maybe $200 a month for a used car, plus gas required maintenance ( oil changes etc) and the AAA membership.
What does a $200 budget buy? $50 in gas $20 for maintenance budget, AAA membership of $10 leaves $120 for payment. That's somewhere around $2600-2700 depending on interest rates.
Properly selected and with better than average luck, she might find something that will last the payments without getting too expensive.
Add $100 and she won't have to worry about any of that.
It's not just adding $100/mo though. You're comparing total cost of ownership of the ICE used vehicle with just the hypothetical monthly payment for the EV. It's going to cost her more than $300/mo to actually own and operate the EV. I think a few people have run the numbers already and a $300/mo payment seems optimistic in the first place. Especially if you're not able to discount the price with the tax credit at the point of sale.
On top of that, she'll need full coverage insurance. This estimator is specific for MN and puts the cost at $5k/yr minimum and $7k average for an inexperienced female driver with zero credit history. That's $400-550/mo just for insurance.
And annual registration costs will be higher because it will be both brand new and an EV. MN charges $10+ 1.25% of the value of the vehicle to register. PLUS a flat $75/yr for an EV. So if the car is worth $20k in year 1, it will cost her $335 just to register it and that's not going to drop very much each year. For comparison, a $10k Corolla would cost $135 to register which is $200/yr that can go towards maintenance.
Which leads me to my next point. Even if an EV doesn't require oil changes, they do still need maintenance. An ICE car probably does 1-2 oil changes per year @ $45 per. The $75 Extra EV registration fee will offset most or all of that, and may even be more if she only needs 1 oil change per year. The Bolt is also heavier than a comparable ICE. That extra weight coupled with the high torque and regen braking will consume tires faster than a comparable small ICE hatchback. The EV still needs washer fluid, brake maintenance, suspension refreshes, wiper blades, etc. And that's assuming nothing like a windshield gets damaged and needs out of pocket replacement or a headlight goes out.
So $300/mo payment + $400/mo insurance + $28/mo registration + $10/mo maintenance + $10/mo charging (One trip to a public fast charger could blow this line of the budget) = $748/mo as a rough estimate for the monthly cost to own AND operate a $20k EV.
Also, will she be able to park on campus? It seems like parking passes may not be guaranteed to all students. And if they are granted, it's going to cost anywhere from $77-143 per month just for a parking pass!
I think we can all see that your intentions are well meaning. But there's not enough cushion in this girl's finances to reasonably own a $20k vehicle, EV or not. And if it were my family member I'd be concerned about adding stress and distraction to an already stressful and busy life.
$400 a month for insurance? You convinced me. She can't afford to go to college. I mean insurance is going to bankrupt her. New or used if she has to finance a car the bank will require full coverage.
It's 3 hours on the buses round trip for a 10 mile trip ( I guessed wrong). No direct routes, 4 transfers each way.
I realize that you have enough money saved to buy a good used car. But she wasted hers on stuff girls her age want. ( which doesn't include cars).
Then parking passes? Are they cheaper for used cars than new?
Oh she just mentioned she needed to fill up the truck and it cost her $45 for the week. ( probably went places other than direct to college and back). At that rate it's $180 a month for gas.
You really should ask Tuna55 what it costs to own his Bolt. He's has actual ownership experiance.
But brakes don't wear on EV's at least not like ICE's because they have regenerative braking where They put charge back into the batteries in slowing down instead of wasting that energy in heat.
One pedal driving is more the norm.
If you've actually researched and gotten a more accurate estimate for any of these costs, then by all means share them. So far, I see an awful lot of hand waving and hoping and not a lot of actual research or math from you.
There's no question that cost per mile with an EV that's charged at home can be super low. But it's also heavily impacted by location and use case as things like the state enforced registration fees indicate. If she can't charge at home, public charging often rivals gasoline prices, so that erodes a primary cost saver of an EV. And really, we're not trying to compare the cost per mile of a $20k EV with a $20k ICE. We're comparing the cost per mile of a $20k EV with a $5-10k ICE which will have higher maintenance and fueling costs, but lower registration and insurance costs in addition to a much lower purchase price.
And the thing about cost per mile advantages, is that it takes miles driven for that advantage to actually show itself. If you're starting $10-15k more expensive with the EV than a reasonable used ICE like a 10 year old Corolla or Prius, it's going to take a ton of miles driven and maintenance performed before the EV makes more financial sense. And it doesn't sound like your granddaughter is going to be driving a ton of miles in the next couple of years so it's not likely that the EV's potential advantage in cost per mile actually puts it ahead of a reasonable used ICE from a financial perspective. Lets say the EV costs $0.25/mile less than the ICE alternative. That might be generous, but it's a nice round number. That means that her 10 mile commute to school would save her $2.50/day. So after 4000 commutes, (40k miles) the EV's hypothetical cost per mile advantage would actually recoup the $10k price difference from our $10k ICE. If she's on campus 200 days per year, it would only take 200 years!
Obviously, these numbers are all SWAG, and she'll drive more than just the 10 miles to campus. You'd need to actually do real math with real information to figure out where/when the break even point is. But I bet with her use case, a lower cost per mile with an EV may not be as large of an advantage as you think relative to a less expensive used ICE.
Duke
MegaDork
9/10/22 6:15 p.m.
In areply to frenchyd :
Really if you don't like working, don't work. I happen to think it keeps me happy and healthy.
That statement would hold a hell of a lot more water if you hadn't spent every investment thread in the last 5 years crying about how you got wiped out financially while somehow still managing to make sure we knew what a rich neighborhood you live in.
No Time
UltraDork
9/10/22 7:03 p.m.
I'm not reading through 7 pages to see if this has been mentioned, but if she is living in a cold state (I.e. MN) the benefits of an EV may not be fully realized.
Check out the section on efficiency and charging cost.
C&D long term model 3
When left unplugged in cold weather there will be a portion of the available range lost while parked as energy is used to keep the battery from freezing. Include the cost of charging, when not done at home, then an ICE may be more be more cost effective and flexible.
frenchyd said:
Steve_Jones said:
frenchyd said:
I'm well past retirement age and still working. In fact now I'm working a full time job and away from home for 11&1/2 hours.
That statement is exactly why she should not take any financial advice from you.
Don't take my advice. Fair enough. I'm currently in the upper 10% based on income and assets.
Really if you don't like working, don't work. I happen to think it keeps me happy and healthy. But you may prefer golf or drinking with your buddies. Whatever, I like the feeling of being needed and helpful to kids. I regularly get letters and sincere thank you'd from parents on how I deal with their children on the bus.
Most SPED drivers require a Para to keep children in line. I haven't.
That's the biggest load of BS I've ever heard. You have posted many times that you can't afford to retire, don't change it now. If you're that well off, just buy her a car, but I bet you can't without a loan. As far as "the upper 10%" if it's not liquid, the % does not matter much. I know you're proud of your $1.7M house since you mention it so much, but there are some very wealthy people giving you advice in this thread, I suggest you try and soak some in.
Duke said:
In areply to frenchyd :
Really if you don't like working, don't work. I happen to think it keeps me happy and healthy.
That statement would hold a hell of a lot more water if you hadn't spent every investment thread in the last 5 years crying about how you got wiped out financially while somehow still managing to make sure we knew what a rich neighborhood you live in.
I regret that I have but one up-vote to give. So here's two thumbs up: 
Talking to a stone wall would be more productive.
STM317 said:
frenchyd said:
STM317 said:
frenchyd said:
$300 a month ( which she's earning from us) against maybe $200 a month for a used car, plus gas required maintenance ( oil changes etc) and the AAA membership.
What does a $200 budget buy? $50 in gas $20 for maintenance budget, AAA membership of $10 leaves $120 for payment. That's somewhere around $2600-2700 depending on interest rates.
Properly selected and with better than average luck, she might find something that will last the payments without getting too expensive.
Add $100 and she won't have to worry about any of that.
It's not just adding $100/mo though. You're comparing total cost of ownership of the ICE used vehicle with just the hypothetical monthly payment for the EV. It's going to cost her more than $300/mo to actually own and operate the EV. I think a few people have run the numbers already and a $300/mo payment seems optimistic in the first place. Especially if you're not able to discount the price with the tax credit at the point of sale.
On top of that, she'll need full coverage insurance. This estimator is specific for MN and puts the cost at $5k/yr minimum and $7k average for an inexperienced female driver with zero credit history. That's $400-550/mo just for insurance.
And annual registration costs will be higher because it will be both brand new and an EV. MN charges $10+ 1.25% of the value of the vehicle to register. PLUS a flat $75/yr for an EV. So if the car is worth $20k in year 1, it will cost her $335 just to register it and that's not going to drop very much each year. For comparison, a $10k Corolla would cost $135 to register which is $200/yr that can go towards maintenance.
Which leads me to my next point. Even if an EV doesn't require oil changes, they do still need maintenance. An ICE car probably does 1-2 oil changes per year @ $45 per. The $75 Extra EV registration fee will offset most or all of that, and may even be more if she only needs 1 oil change per year. The Bolt is also heavier than a comparable ICE. That extra weight coupled with the high torque and regen braking will consume tires faster than a comparable small ICE hatchback. The EV still needs washer fluid, brake maintenance, suspension refreshes, wiper blades, etc. And that's assuming nothing like a windshield gets damaged and needs out of pocket replacement or a headlight goes out.
So $300/mo payment + $400/mo insurance + $28/mo registration + $10/mo maintenance + $10/mo charging (One trip to a public fast charger could blow this line of the budget) = $748/mo as a rough estimate for the monthly cost to own AND operate a $20k EV.
Also, will she be able to park on campus? It seems like parking passes may not be guaranteed to all students. And if they are granted, it's going to cost anywhere from $77-143 per month just for a parking pass!
I think we can all see that your intentions are well meaning. But there's not enough cushion in this girl's finances to reasonably own a $20k vehicle, EV or not. And if it were my family member I'd be concerned about adding stress and distraction to an already stressful and busy life.
$400 a month for insurance? You convinced me. She can't afford to go to college. I mean insurance is going to bankrupt her. New or used if she has to finance a car the bank will require full coverage.
It's 3 hours on the buses round trip for a 10 mile trip ( I guessed wrong). No direct routes, 4 transfers each way.
I realize that you have enough money saved to buy a good used car. But she wasted hers on stuff girls her age want. ( which doesn't include cars).
Then parking passes? Are they cheaper for used cars than new?
Oh she just mentioned she needed to fill up the truck and it cost her $45 for the week. ( probably went places other than direct to college and back). At that rate it's $180 a month for gas.
You really should ask Tuna55 what it costs to own his Bolt. He's has actual ownership experiance.
But brakes don't wear on EV's at least not like ICE's because they have regenerative braking where They put charge back into the batteries in slowing down instead of wasting that energy in heat.
One pedal driving is more the norm.
If you've actually researched and gotten a more accurate estimate for any of these costs, then by all means share them. So far, I see an awful lot of hand waving and hoping and not a lot of actual research or math from you.
There's no question that cost per mile with an EV that's charged at home can be super low. But it's also heavily impacted by location and use case as things like the state enforced registration fees indicate. If she can't charge at home, public charging often rivals gasoline prices, so that erodes a primary cost saver of an EV. And really, we're not trying to compare the cost per mile of a $20k EV with a $20k ICE. We're comparing the cost per mile of a $20k EV with a $5-10k ICE which will have higher maintenance and fueling costs, but lower registration and insurance costs in addition to a much lower purchase price.
And the thing about cost per mile advantages, is that it takes miles driven for that advantage to actually show itself. If you're starting $10-15k more expensive with the EV than a reasonable used ICE like a 10 year old Corolla or Prius, it's going to take a ton of miles driven and maintenance performed before the EV makes more financial sense. And it doesn't sound like your granddaughter is going to be driving a ton of miles in the next couple of years so it's not likely that the EV's potential advantage in cost per mile actually puts it ahead of a reasonable used ICE from a financial perspective. Lets say the EV costs $0.25/mile less than the ICE alternative. That might be generous, but it's a nice round number. That means that her 10 mile commute to school would save her $2.50/day. So after 4000 commutes, (40k miles) the EV's hypothetical cost per mile advantage would actually recoup the $10k price difference from our $10k ICE. If she's on campus 200 days per year, it would only take 200 years!
Obviously, these numbers are all SWAG, and she'll drive more than just the 10 miles to campus. You'd need to actually do real math with real information to figure out where/when the break even point is. But I bet with her use case, a lower cost per mile with an EV may not be as large of an advantage as you think relative to a less expensive used ICE.
Your supposition of not being able to charge simply does not carry any water.
The average American travels 31 miles a day. She will need to cover 20 miles.
The range of the Bolt is 259 miles. But Tuna 55 reported today his showed 301 miles of range. That's a 3 year old Bolt with 65,000 miles on it?
We know that she used $45 for fuel last week( in my truck which I average about 20 mpg commuting the 23 miles to work. ) .
Those aren't guesses those are facts.
Spend a little bit of time reading Tuna 55's post
As for the way you calculate costs? You look at short term. I look at the longest term possible. My last truck cost me $100 a month to own over a 20 year period.
It's earned 3 times its cost, and effectively built my house. My MG? I should figure that out. Let's see 60 years ••••
Hey maybe you're looking at things the wrong way? We are looking at trading her labor to clean our house for the next 6 years and then she will have a used Chevy Bolt. In the meantime she gets to use it however she wants.
The other option she'll be given is a used Chevy Volt that's just a couple of years older. In exchange for her labor. Same deal.
Maybe with pistons and valves you'd like that better?
No Time
UltraDork
9/10/22 11:06 p.m.
You need to take Tuna's location and the time of year into account.
Battery performance (range, etc) for Tuna in September is not going to be the same as what your grand daughter would see in Nov- Apr in MN.
Losing range while parked is going to be a fact of life for an EV in a cold environment. Add that to the reduced range during cold months, and the EV b comes less of an advantage.
Duke said:
In areply to frenchyd :
Really if you don't like working, don't work. I happen to think it keeps me happy and healthy.
That statement would hold a hell of a lot more water if you hadn't spent every investment thread in the last 5 years crying about how you got wiped out financially while somehow still managing to make sure we knew what a rich neighborhood you live in.
True enough. I love all these finical advisors who forget to add; all investments contain risk.
No Time said:
I'm not reading through 7 pages to see if this has been mentioned, but if she is living in a cold state (I.e. MN) the benefits of an EV may not be fully realized.
Check out the section on efficiency and charging cost.
C&D long term model 3
When left unplugged in cold weather there will be a portion of the available range lost while parked as energy is used to keep the battery from freezing. Include the cost of charging, when not done at home, then an ICE may be more be more cost effective and flexible.
Her goal is to go 10 miles to college and then return home. I suspect that the 259 mile range of the Bolt will achieve that. Besides that though living here we deal with cold weather. There are electrical outlets in parking lots because even ICE cars have trouble starting in our up to 40 below weather. So they plug in their block heaters.
No Time said:
You need to take Tuna's location and the time of year into account.
Battery performance (range, etc) for Tuna in September is not going to be the same as what your grand daughter would see in Nov- Apr in MN.
Losing range while parked is going to be a fact of life for an EV in a cold environment. Add that to the reduced range during cold months, and the EV b comes less of an advantage.
31 miles a day. The distance the average American travels.
My grand daughter needs to travel 20 miles round trip. With a rated 259 miles I don't believe that will be an issue.
No Time
UltraDork
9/10/22 11:50 p.m.
In reply to frenchyd :
I'm sorry if this seems blunt, but it sounds to me like there wasn't really a question where you were asking for opinions to help formulate your decision based on pluses and minuses that you received from the hive.
This thread seems like a situation where you already know what you want to do, and you are trying to get someone else to say it. In other words, you want to hear your plan suggested by someone else.
Slippery said:
Sounds to me you want to make her indebted to you and your wife so you have a cleaning lady for the rest of your life.
No, that's not what I read. I read he started this just for an opportunity to be argumentative with every answer.
Like most (not all, but most) of his posts.
In reply to No Time :
I've asked if I should help my granddaughter. While some have said yes. Many want me to change the way I should help her by buying something I don't believe is a good alternative.
Here are the three main reason why.
First; potential problems with the car selected. Used cars are not as reliable as new and cheap used cars especially so.
Second; the cost of fuel and maintenance will add significantly to her her getting to and from college. This week using my truck she spent $45 for gas.
Third; studying to be a doctor is really a 9 year program. Each section more stressful than the last. Concern about transportation is the last thing she needs.
I figure it will cost us about $300 a month to buy a new Chevy Bolt. Since we are already paying her about that much to clean the house every month. We will simply make payments on the car in exchange for her house cleaning service. Her father will contribute a few dollars worth of electricity and in Six years she gets the title.
Steve_Jones said:
You have posted many times that you can't afford to retire, don't change it now.
Don't forget, since he often doesn't read and comprehend what others write, and it's never him that's wrong, you can't expect him to remember that!
He'll have some reason your wrong, don't worry.
Cousin_Eddie (Forum Supporter) said:
frenchyd said:
Steve_Jones said:
frenchyd said:
I'm well past retirement age and still working. In fact now I'm working a full time job and away from home for 11&1/2 hours.
That statement is exactly why she should not take any financial advice from you.
Don't take my advice. Fair enough. I'm currently in the upper 10% based on income and assets.
Really if you don't like working, don't work. I happen to think it keeps me happy and healthy. But you may prefer golf or drinking with your buddies. Whatever, I like the feeling of being needed and helpful to kids. I regularly get letters and sincere thank you'd from parents on how I deal with their children on the bus.
Most SPED drivers require a Para to keep children in line. I haven't.
Well if you're that well off just buy her the damn car outright. Then she won't have the stress of worrying about when you're going to die and leave her with lingering debt and no house to clean to earn that payment every month.
Let me ask you this?
If I said I was just going to give her a new car wouldn't you be claiming I'd spoil her?
Or are you suggesting I shouldn't help her?
She's 16 has, no money saved. So getting to college is going to require some loan. Banks will require full coverage insurance which someone else has said will add between $400-550 a month to whatever she gets. Plus higher interest on a used car, and shorter loan periods.
So tell me cousin Eddie what's your answer? 16 years old, college is 10 miles away, and no direct bus lines.
Are you listening Frenchie ? I will answer your question right here. Pay attention.
My oldest daughter began college at 16 also. She will be graduating the University of Texas in May with a chemistry degree. She will then be headed to medical school. Her MCAT score puts her in the 95th percentile. She has worked like a slave to get to where she is academically. Giving her a car is not spoiling her. I would never claim that. It allows her the ability to stay focused on her future and not clean houses or sling burgers or whatever. You don't have to put on a McDonalds hat or a maid uniform to be working. Life360 lets me see her moving around the college campus all the time and there's plenty of nights she goes from the library to her dorm at midnight. She's damn sure working, just not at some paid job. She's not spoiled.
I bought her a 4500 dollar CRV at the age of 16 and it has served her perfectly. I bought it outright and gave it to her. When she turned 18 last year we went to the courthouse and I transferred the title into her name. See, both my daughters dealt with the death of their mother last fall. Two teenage girls watched their 44 year old mother (my ex wife) die after a long battle with breast cancer. So I know first hand what a E36 M3 show a death can be on finances and money and business.
I carry her car insurance on my regular policy since the day she began driving. It's about 50 bucks per month. I don't carry full coverage on an old Honda that's worth so little. If something catastrophic happens to it I'll just buy her another one. Less than 10k will easy buy a nice one. See Frenchie, I retired this spring at the age of 49. Now I drive a pickup delivering parts as a low key retirement job. It allows me to do stupid irresponsible E36 M3 like play with my Corvette or whatever other crazy adventure I want to goof with. I'm not wealthy like you are but I retired real early and I have taught my daughters that it's always always always cheaper to maintain a used car than it is to buy a new one. Failing that it is always always always better to buy a CPO or similar quality used car than it is to buy a new one.
So the Cliff notes answer is as follows. If you're so damn well off just buy her a car and give it to her. Don't make her worry about cleaning your house or whether you're gonna have a stroke and be rendered an invalid or just flat out die. When she turns 18 have the title transferred into her name. Then she won't have the stress of whether papa Frenchie is going to be able to keep carrying her or having to deal with the hassle of a car that's been willed to her upon your death. But, what do I know. I'm a retired fireman. I did not retire in the top 10% or whatever number you say you did.
frenchyd said:
In reply to No Time :
I figure it will cost us about $300 a month to buy a new Chevy Bolt. Since we are already paying her about that much to clean the house every month. We will simply make payments on the car in exchange for her house cleaning service. Her father will contribute a few dollars worth of electricity and in Six years she gets the title.
Why the payments Mr 10%? Why not cash? It's been pointed out a few times that it can't be bought for $300 a month already, but you want to act like it can.
frenchyd said:
Duke said:
In areply to frenchyd :
Really if you don't like working, don't work. I happen to think it keeps me happy and healthy.
That statement would hold a hell of a lot more water if you hadn't spent every investment thread in the last 5 years crying about how you got wiped out financially while somehow still managing to make sure we knew what a rich neighborhood you live in.
True enough. I love all these finical advisors who forget to add; all investments contain risk.
I'm sure they told you, but just like this thread, you knew better. How'd that work out? If you go back a few pages I already said you'd say it was someone else's fault you couldn't retire, and here it is.
If she drives your old truck every day, and you want to help her, why not just give her your truck?
Tom Suddard said:
If she drives your old truck every day, and you want to help her, why not just give her your truck?
Or at least pay for the gas? I know, that old super reliable, $100 a month truck is suddenly on the verge of a breakdown right? There's some excuse coming.
It really sounds like someone with E36 M3 credit was going to use his 16 year old granddaughter to get himself a new car, but I could be wrong.
