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Adrian_Thompson
Adrian_Thompson SuperDork
11/15/12 8:07 a.m.
RexSeven wrote: I don't know if you will need them, but I found these front control arm underbody patch panels on a Saab 900 eBay listing (was considering one for a winter beater). http://autorust.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=8&products_id=302&zenid=2ba9f79oibk17qr9hg3m9oqga5

This car isn't bad enough to need these yet, that's the attraction, it's a relativly rust free car. I belive I can add a songle simpler patch than the rust car. Worst case I should only need one side in the future, but I hope ot head it off before that.

Adrian_Thompson
Adrian_Thompson SuperDork
11/15/12 8:42 a.m.
procainestart wrote: Often when a non-car person drives my 89 900, they remark on how much fun it is to drive. I believe this is because of the double-wishbone suspension and front geometry, which cannot be replicated with struts. Also, the axles are nearly equal length, so torque steer isn't bad. Maybe I'm too attached, but I've not yet driven a newer, sharper car and wished I didn't have a 23-year-old Saab. I used to run the stock 89T on street tires in autocross. You can put tons of camber in with shims (I also ran an 86 with so much camber that the tires hit the springs unless they were on the ground; the car easily oversteered from the front grip). It's got a lot of torque when the boost kicks in and you won't dominate anyone but I had a helluva good time running it.

That’s what I’m looking for. A fun to drive, sharp, different car. Can you make your own camber shims or do you have to find genuine SAAB one’s and stack them? What was your street tire set up? I’m thinking Bilstiens, springs of some sort, camber and 15x7 wheels with 205-225 section ST type street tires.

procainestart wrote: My friend and I TSD an 85T. We took it on Alcan 5000 and ran it to and on the Arctic Ocean in Feb. We ran it deep in the boost for hours at a time on that event; she never hiccuped. I'll be running it at a TSD this weekend up in B.C., where it will almost turn 300k miles, original bottom end (cross hatches still visible at 250k). It has a Quaife, is lifted a bit, skidplate, "boxed" control arms, and lifted SPG springs, but that's really about it. We cannot seem to kill it. It has thousands and thousands of miles on gravel and snow. Yes, it's rattly as hell now, but is quiet on the highway, and drives quite nicely to/from events.

AAhh, I assume your one of these guys:

In this thread? http://www.saabcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=118473 Yes, I’ve read your exploits with relish. That looks soooooo much fun. I’ve done the Detroit region TSD school twice now, but not entered an actual TSD yet. I don’t think Michigan TSD’s are quite up the stress level you guys are used too, but I want out there in my Swedish Boost buggy 

procainestart wrote: I think that it's certainly possible to have the gearboxes last, but my experience with six or seven 900s is that you're odds aren't good (all had issues, from bad synchros [83, 86, 92] to pinion bearings [86, 89] to outright destruction [85]). The best ones are from 89 and 90s, second best are from 91-93. I currently have two rebuilts and I change the gear oil every 20k. Both get different flavors of Redline, as the transmission acts as a big heatsink.

This is by far my biggest worry wart. This car is an 88 with the weaker box and I know 2nd gear Syncro is worn. I will change the oil before driving it, but an 89-90 box has to be on my radar screen for purchase and rebuild. I’d love to get an LSD, but as is usual with these things and LSD is more expensive than the actual car! There seems to be several options out there, I may have to save up and get one while back in the UK sometime and bring it in my luggage to save on shipping costs.

procainestart wrote: Finally, my car recently made 200 whp on a Mustang dyno; stock is 160 crank. You could do the same for about $20-$50 and a day, depending on your pick-n-pull's prices. More is achievable without considerable effort.

OK Guru, what’s the 200whp secret sauce junk yard recipe? Confession time. I’ve never been to a pick and pull in this country. My previous projects have all been too new (Miata, Mustang), too obscure (323GTX, Formula SAE) or too old (Fiesta) to have much available in the way of pick and pull upgrades. I need to find where the pick and pulls are in SE Mi.

procainestart wrote: EDIT: My car has the STUPID passive seatbelts, too. Lucky for us, though, every other market had standard belts, so you can replace the passive stuff; the fastener points are all in the car. Note, however, that the belts have to come from an 88-89 *base* model 900 3-door, or 87 and earlier hatch -- not positive how far back, but probably at least to 83. (In '90, they went to a different buckle shape.) You'll need the interior panels from the donor car as well, or you may be able to carve out holes in the existing panels (the standard belts' reels are behind the panels, with a pass-through hole for the belts). There's a FAQ on Saabnet. If you are OCD, then you'll also replace the headliner, which is different on passive-belt cars.

OK, off too Saabnet to look at the FAQ. The headliner is coming out anyway as the cover is completely shot. I won’t change the headliner backer, but if it’s just a missing section for the track, I might look at F-glassing some structure in to cover the gap.

While the headliner is out I need to look at the leaking sun roof too. Any advice?

Thanks for an awesome post.

mad_machine
mad_machine GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
11/15/12 1:20 p.m.

I want to thank everyone here.. I needed to get rid of one of my cars and decided to stick with the swedes and get rid of my almost dead ti. I did not realize the following the 900 turbo had until I got a few inquires via PMs from here when I mentioned potentially selling mine.

The Ti will be broken up for parts as the body is just too far gone

Rusted_Busted_Spit
Rusted_Busted_Spit GRM+ Memberand UltraDork
11/15/12 5:32 p.m.

In reply to mad_machine:

We are glad to help. One of these days I will get an SPG to go along with my 9-5.

procainestart
procainestart Dork
11/15/12 11:36 p.m.

Yes, I was the one who stuffed the car into a snowbank on the ice road. (My name is Hans.)

You can make your own camber shims but you probably wouldn't have to work too hard to find some, either.

Sunroof leaks are often caused by clogged drain holes -- there are four, one at each corner. They fill with organic debris over time. Clean them with a small wire brush. I also pour about a gallon of fairly hot (but not scalding) water down them, too. Another possibility, while less likely, is that the roof has rusted and created a hole in the rubber seal; water creeps in as a result.

While you're at it, make sure the HVAC intake below the hood vent isn't full of leaves/pine needles -- if it clogs, water comes inside.

While you're at it, make sure the rear quarter window seals haven't shrunk and pulled away from the body at the corners. They probably have. Stretch them out again and re-attach with some 3M Trim Adhesive (black tube). An alternative is to cut the seal at the seam and graft in about 1 inch of donor seal; secure w/rubber cement.

The way I got 200 hp was to install a cold-start injector from an Audi, placed upstream of the throttle (not in the throttle, where it will actually fit. The switch is pressure-activated using an over-pressure (hobbes) switch from a Saab. I set it to turn on at about 13 or 14 psi.

The fifth injector gets fuel from the end of the rail, where I have removed the stock banjo bolt and fitted a double banjo bolt from a CIS Audi or VW (some Saabs had them, too), plus a stainless steel line from a CIS VW. My car has an unused cold start injector plug that I simply attached; yours may, too. Next, at the ECU, I found the pin that grounds the cold start injector if it had actually had one, and wired in the pressure switch so that at the pre-set pressure, the switch closes, the current opens the injector. Crude? Yes, but it seems to work.

There's more. The 16V Turbo's came with a 2.5 bar regulator. If you get a 3.0 bar reg from any 86-90 non-turbo (NOT 91+), you'll get about 10% more fuel at WOT. It's a 1-dimensional fuel map at WOT, in open loop, relying only on the RPM signal, so the ECU has no idea that you're giving the engine the extra fuel. Fuel economy does not suffer, as the ECU can run the car in closed loop otherwise.

You'll need to modify the APC: http://web.inter.nl.net/users/turbo-team-europe/apc.htm

Also search old Saabnet posts. Use terms like "pots" "knock sensitity"

For timing, I took the vac/boost capsule off the distributor and bent down the stop piece that limits the amount of retard, then refitted it, pumped up the capsule to max pressure, and set the timing to 11BTDC, which is the max retard for this car. Meanwhile, because you've change the amount of total travel that the capsule arm can move, and hence, affect timing, you now have more off-boost advance, and better response. You want to shoot for 11 BTDC under pressure, and about 22*BTDC under vacuum.

Set your baseboost to 2/3s of yellow.

Make sure your throttle switch is good, and that the vacuum/boost canister on the dist. is good.

amg_rx7
amg_rx7 Dork
11/16/12 11:57 a.m.

Adrian_Thompson
Adrian_Thompson SuperDork
11/17/12 7:03 a.m.
procainestart wrote: The way I got 200 hp was to install a cold-start injector from an Audi, placed upstream of the throttle (not in the throttle, where it will actually fit. The switch is pressure-activated using an over-pressure (hobbes) switch from a Saab. I set it to turn on at about 13 or 14 psi. The fifth injector gets fuel from the end of the rail, where I have removed the stock banjo bolt and fitted a double banjo bolt from a CIS Audi or VW (some Saabs had them, too), plus a stainless steel line from a CIS VW. My car has an unused cold start injector plug that I simply attached; yours may, too. Next, at the ECU, I found the pin that grounds the cold start injector if it had actually had one, and wired in the pressure switch so that at the pre-set pressure, the switch closes, the current opens the injector. Crude? Yes, but it seems to work. There's more. The 16V Turbo's came with a 2.5 bar regulator. If you get a 3.0 bar reg from any 86-90 non-turbo (NOT 91+), you'll get about 10% more fuel at WOT. It's a 1-dimensional fuel map at WOT, in open loop, relying only on the RPM signal, so the ECU has no idea that you're giving the engine the extra fuel. Fuel economy does not suffer, as the ECU can run the car in closed loop otherwise. You'll need to modify the APC: http://web.inter.nl.net/users/turbo-team-europe/apc.htm Also search old Saabnet posts. Use terms like "pots" "knock sensitity"

OK, this is amazing. These cold start injectors, I'm confused, I'm used to cold start injectors on CIS, but not EFI. Are they a very low rate? I guess I'm not fully following the conection, I'll have too google for some pics.

You have to love old 80's boost buggies and efi, such simple upgrades.

Adrian_Thompson
Adrian_Thompson SuperDork
11/17/12 7:06 a.m.

Ah, or I could just follow the link provided!!! So it's a regular injector with an AN fitting on the end by the look if it.

dabird
dabird Reader
11/18/12 1:49 p.m.

well, Adrian just left my house in Indiana with a Saab 900 turbo in tow. I would suspect a build thread will be soon to follow

stan_d
stan_d Dork
11/19/12 10:48 a.m.

I put a n/a engine in turbo car. Boosts into red pulls very hard.

Fletch1
Fletch1 HalfDork
11/19/12 11:13 a.m.

In reply to Rusted_Busted_Spit:

I tried to keep this one to myself, but I wouldn't be the right owner, I'm gonna pass. So here you go fellow central Ohioan: http://columbus.craigslist.org/cto/3364294797.html

Adrian_Thompson
Adrian_Thompson SuperDork
11/19/12 11:21 a.m.
dabird wrote: well, Adrian just left my house in Indiana with a Saab 900 turbo in tow. I would suspect a build thread will be soon to follow

Build thread being drafted now, wait oh patient ones. Great meeting Matt (dabird), Tim Thompson (Powar) and eerrr, the other guy who's name I've forgotten. Easy trip, easy transaction. Happy me

Adrian_Thompson
Adrian_Thompson SuperDork
11/19/12 11:22 a.m.
Fletch1 wrote: In reply to Rusted_Busted_Spit: I tried to keep this one to myself, but I wouldn't be the right owner, I'm gonna pass. So here you go fellow central Ohioan: http://columbus.craigslist.org/cto/3364294797.html

This car looks familiar, does it belong to someone here?

procainestart
procainestart Dork
11/19/12 9:30 p.m.

Here's some instructions on the fifth injector:

Couple things: my install of the injector, while it has lasted for, I don't know, 6 or 7 years at least now, is pretty ghetto -- I would mount it in the aluminum plumbing, not the coupler. While the throttle's stock location for a cold start injector is likely just blocked off on your car, you don't want to mount it there, as #4 cyl doesn't get its fair share of fuel.

You should also know that some people just install bigger injectors. You can certainly do that, but I wanted to retain the stock warm-up, fuel economy, and emissions. And I wanted to do all this for very little money...

Fifth injector -- 1989 900T

The U.S. 1989 900 Turbo has a cold start injector plug included in the wiring harness, so adding a fifth injector is simplified. Other years may be similarly equipped but, if not, you can easily tap into the injector harness -- there is sufficient power for a fifth injector.

For power, you need to access the ECU wiring plug, ground the wire (see your Bentley manual), and add a pressure switch to the circuit so the injector only runs at high boost. The switch, which is adjustable, can be found on LH2.2 Saab 900 Turbos, and is located under the dash (refer to Bentley for specific location).

To supply fuel to the injector, go to the boneyard and grab a double banjo bolt from a CIS Audi or Volkswagen; you'll also want to grab a braided stainless steel fuel line from the same car; be sure it's long enough. The banjo bolt will fit right on the Saab fuel rail and allows you to easily supply the injector.

The follow photo diagrams the fuel line set-up at the fuel rail:

(There's an error in the photo -- I have only put a red square around half of the double banjo bolt, omitting the main part at the end of the rail.)

Mount the fifth injector at the intercooler outlet. You can do this by poking a very small hole in the rubber coupling, then forcing the fifth injector nose through the hole. It's a tight fight (as it should be), so take your time. Once installed, secure the injector with a couple hose clamps. Do not mount the injector in the throttle - the 4th cylinder will receive insufficient fuel and run lean.

The following photo shows the installed injector:

Using a 100ml graduated cylinder, I carefully measured the flow of a number of Bosch cold start injectors (average of three times sprays). The largest one came from a 5-cylinder Audi. Presumably, larger CIS-equipped engines, such as V6 Volvos or V8 Mercedes will flow more.

Some data: Saab CIS cold start injector at ~9.2 lb/hr (89 cc/min), Audi 5000 at 11.6 lb/hr (113 cc/min). Tested in car, while running, with 3 bar FPR, healthy fuel pump, and nearly 43 psi on pressure gauge.

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