Statement on George Floyd

In reply to Adrian_Thompson (Forum Supporter) :

Well put.

Thank you for seeing the bigger picture. 

There seem to be two independent groups who provide oversight on charities.   Both are reasonably favorable towards SPLC with Charitywatch giving a F rating because the SPLC carries several years of operating expense in savings rather than being used immediately.   Given our recent knowledge about how volatile large organizations reserves are I don't find this to be an issue.   Both oversight groups show that a large percentage of the money spent by SPLC goes towards the mission listed.  I'm also highly sure that if GRM had donated to the NAACP, BLM, or The Sentencing Project the same folks would have the same reaction.

https://www.charitywatch.org/charities/southern-poverty-law-center

https://www.charitynavigator.org/index.cfm?bay=search.summary&orgid=4482

Those who are mad enough about GRM donating to the SPLC to leave the community and demonize the organizers seem to be quoting media articles.   The same stories over and over just written by different groups rehashed and repacked repeatedly over the years.

https://www.breitbart.com/tag/splc/

When talking about racism in this context we aren't and shouldn't be focusing on white robed cross burners.   This is about a systematic problem where hard numbers from our justice system show a disproportionate amount of minorities per capita are jailed, beaten, or killed by our justice system.   A system where the sentencing for minorities is far stricter than for others for the same crimes.   

https://www.sentencingproject.org/publications/color-of-justice-racial-and-ethnic-disparity-in-state-prisons/

These protests are not about Trump they are not even really about George Floyd.   They are decades of build up from injustices.   We have a bad tendency to pin bad things on one effigy, go and burn it, and then go back to business never having addressed what caused that effigy.   

About a decade ago I had my world rocked when I was given "the talk" that a black friend gave to his 10 year old son about working with law enforcement. It was not in response to current events things were relatively quiet in the early 2010s. it was just me and him talking as friends and parents. He explained the need and why he felt that it was best for his son to not stand up for his rights when being confronted, the risks were too great.

I was taught to stand up for my rights to respectfully ask questions and I am entitled to certain answers. This is not the lived experience of black America. This talk is not an uncommon thing it is incredibly widespread and it is a survival tactic. We should not consider ourselves a free country when a sizable portion of the US has to tell their middle schoolers how best not to get shot by law enforcement.

When the talk was explained to me I was incredibly incredulous and figured he just had heard a couple bad stories and was being overprotective like most parents do. As the years went on I learned more and more why it was needed and how common it is. I'm fairly open minded but even so I did not like my world being moved that much in one conversation and I rejected his and generations of his families lived experience. I was wrong to do so.

Tom, I think the amount is relative.

From my perspective:

I work in an industry affected by COVID 19. I understood this & tightened the belt back in early March.

I see a post on GRM titled something like, 'COVID 19 is taking down motorsports companies and it could take GRM too'. I interpret this as bankruptcy is coming without reader support, & I set aside $20 for GRM in the event of a second call of desperation.

I've been keeping an eye on it since. Again, from my perspective, there's been a lot of rice & beans between then & now, and my work situation has only gotten worse.

Now, if GRM needs my money to keep food on the table then say so. If they have enough to give away to others then say so.

If it's $50, eh, alright. That's a decent token of, "I'd like to do something but have limited resources right now". I'm sure there are plenty of donations being made to similar causes currently, and those organizations are doing alright. If it's $500 I think we're getting into the realm of irresponsible and selfish decision making.

There are people out there who are taking food off the table to give it to GRM. When someone asks for money, I assume it is a last resort plea of desperation.

Personally, I think a more effective position would be to say something like, "excuse me, may I have a few minutes of your time. While steps have been made to crack down on individuals who abuse their positions in a community to engage in unjust violence, it is unfortunately still an occurrence. We encourage anyone interested in bettering the departments of our public servants by eliminating corruption and selfishly active individuals. Some ways to do this are by contacting your local congressional representatives and asking them to support body cameras in your local police departments. You can participate in local community meetings and events. We encourage you to demonstrate peacefully and bear in mind that your local law enforcement agencies are made up of individuals, members of your community. Show them while you're out there that you support the good they do and the good members of the agencies. You can find more information about current strategies to eliminate bad actors from law enforcement agencies at: xxx, yyy, zzz".

I'm personally tired of seeing the same circular platitudes & people "protesting" who are acting like children. Put on a shirt & tie and calmly tell me why and what change you're interested in. A lot of people come off as angsty 18 year olds who don't know what they want, or who their audience is. Seems like a lot of protest just serves to make enemies, make yourself look bad, and not focus on productive things like a course of action, or identification of problem areas.

No E36 M3, bad people exist. They existed yesterday & they'll exist tomorrow. Some of them work at charities. Some of them work at magazines. I'm hesitant to give anyone money, particularly strangers online, and even more so when I can't see exactly how it's spent.

I like GRM & the people who post here, but please keep in mind that some of the community members are very cheap/miserly, very poor, or a bit of both. Doesn't make anyone a bad person, but maybe it will help add a bit of perspective to all sides.

In reply to Maniac0301 :

This is very good and how I understand the current situationS.

tremm said:

Tom, I think the amount is relative.

From my perspective:

I work in an industry affected by COVID 19. I understood this & tightened the belt back in early March.

I see a post on GRM titled something like, 'COVID 19 is taking down motorsports companies and it could take GRM too'. I interpret this as bankruptcy is coming without reader support, & I set aside $20 for GRM in the event of a second call of desperation.

I've been keeping an eye on it since. Again, from my perspective, there's been a lot of rice & beans between then & now, and my work situation has only gotten worse.

Now, if GRM needs my money to keep food on the table then say so. If they have enough to give away to others then say so.

If it's $50, eh, alright. That's a decent token of, "I'd like to do something but have limited resources right now". I'm sure there are plenty of donations being made to similar causes currently, and those organizations are doing alright. If it's $500 I think we're getting into the realm of irresponsible and selfish decision making.

There are people out there who are taking food off the table to give it to GRM. When someone asks for money, I assume it is a last resort plea of desperation.

 

Personally, I think a more effective position would be to say something like, "excuse me, may I have a few minutes of your time. While steps have been made to crack down on individuals who abuse their positions in a community to engage in unjust violence, it is unfortunately still an occurrence. We encourage anyone interested in bettering the departments of our public servants by eliminating corruption and selfishly active individuals. Some ways to do this are by contacting your local congressional representatives and asking them to support body cameras in your local police departments. You can participate in local community meetings and events. We encourage you to demonstrate peacefully and bear in mind that your local law enforcement agencies are made up of individuals, members of your community. Show them while you're out there that you support the good they do and the good members of the agencies. You can find more information about current strategies to eliminate bad actors from law enforcement agencies at: xxx, yyy, zzz".

I'm personally tired of seeing the same circular platitudes & people "protesting" who are acting like children. Put on a shirt & tie and calmly tell me why and what change you're interested in. A lot of people come off as angsty 18 year olds who don't know what they want, or who their audience is. Seems like a lot of protest just serves to make enemies, make yourself look bad, and not focus on productive things like a course of action, or identification of problem areas.

No E36 M3, bad people exist. They existed yesterday & they'll exist tomorrow. Some of them work at charities. Some of them work at magazines. I'm hesitant to give anyone money, particularly strangers online, and even more so when I can't see exactly how it's spent.

I like GRM & the people who post here, but please keep in mind that some of the community members are very cheap/miserly, very poor, or a bit of both. Doesn't make anyone a bad person, but maybe it will help add a bit of perspective to all sides.

this post needs way more likes. very true.

TheRX7Project said:

I'm not leaving, but I am disappointed any time any business decides to take a side on anything political. When a business I support begins making donations (partially of my money) towards something politically motivated, it puts a tough decision in my hands. Hopefully this doesn't become a recurring theme at GRM.

I subscribe to GRM because I enjoy the content, and come to the forums to talk cars, and one of the things I truly enjoy most here is that politics is somewhat verboten unless it pertains directly to our hobby.

I fully support George Floyd's family and friends, and those who are taking a stand to end police brutality.

Racism is not political.  It's just wrong. 

MrFancypants said:

Rowdy_Trickle said:

I am all for GRM speaking their mind, using their medium to voice their concerns, it is what makes this country great. The ability to have freedom of speech, freedom of press, the right to assembly, and so on. Look at the oppression that is happening in Hong Kong, the widespread racism in Guangzhou China, the state filtering and controlling internet content, and all the media outlets, one can quickly realize that we truly live in a great country. We need to work together instead to resolve difficult issues as such instead of divided.

What am I not okay with? GRM repeatedly asking for donations to keep them afloat during these tumultuous times, pulling on our heartstrings as if they might have to close their doors, only to turn around and make a donation to a not so good organization. You can do whatever you'd like with your capital overhead; again its the great part of this country, but don't give us some bullE36 M3 sob story asking for charitable contributions anymore. I feel played. I could have put that donation money towards my kid's college fund, instead I tried helping a business out that has provided me an escape from reality every now and then, that gave me hope and aspirations of getting on track, that has an amazing community that is always willing to help and provide positive feedback to questions.

I know you guys are better than this, it's disappointing.

/r

First post.  Signed up today.

What's your point? I've lurked the forums, subscribe to the magazine, donated to their "charity" cause to keep their lights on, buy GRM 24 tickets, buy from their sponsors/advertisers, and so on. Apparently I'm not entitled to voice my concerns now.

We literally announced what we'd done in a public post on the homepage of both websites and have now hosted 10+ pages of feedback while answering everyone's questions for nearly 24 hours straight. 

Thanks GRM.  Well done.

In reply to tremm :

I'm personally tired of seeing the same circular platitudes & people "protesting" who are acting like children. Put on a shirt & tie and calmly tell me why and what change you're interested in. A lot of people come off as angsty 18 year olds who don't know what they want, or who their audience is. Seems like a lot of protest just serves to make enemies, make yourself look bad, and not focus on productive things like a course of action, or identification of problem areas.

That's been tried. How'd it work out? 

Desperate people do desperate things.

Marjorie Suddard said:

In reply to Subscriber-unavailabile :

I've thought a lot about my out-of-bounds reply to you, and have decided that I need to do what our mods would tell me to do if they saw that post, and take a step away from the board for a cooling off period. 

And yes, what we posted was obviously divisive. Not intentionally so, though we knew there was a possibility there would be blowback. The charitable donation was something we felt was necessary to give meaning to our words--and to help fight the problem. We're not in a position to give away bunches of money or run off loads of readers; we are in a position to speak and be heard, though. So there it is.

We are heartened by the support we've seen, but saddened that a message of love, support and unity has provoked so much anger.

Margie

What y'all are failing to acknowledge, is why Margie hates the Oxford comma? 

z31maniac said:

What y'all are failing to acknowledge, is why Margie hates the Oxford comma? 

Next ban right here.

Thanks GRM - I'll keep subscribing and the forum will keep making me buy questionable cars with no real purpose in mind.....

In reply to AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter) :

Glad to see you go.

In reply to z31maniac :

It's an AP Style Guide thing. 

In reply to Staff of Motorsport Marketing, Inc. :

I support this in every possible way. I stand with you. 

Nicole Suddard said:

In reply to z31maniac :

It's an AP Style Guide thing. 

Oh no. Are we going to go down that rabbit hole? :)

Nicole Suddard said:

In reply to z31maniac :

It's an AP Style Guide thing. 

I know, I have a BA in Journalism. I was just trying to inject a bit of levity in the midst of all the rancor. 

And I'm positive Margie also knows thats how it was intended. 

I fully support your decision to do Something, and furthermore applaud it. Racisim is nothing to stay silent about.

I have to pipe up here however, as a longtime poster. I think you made an honest mistake and missed the mark with the donation. I was more or less a fan, until SPLC labeled dedicated fans of the band Insane Clown Posse 'juggalos' a hate group. As a casual fan, I kind of object to that kinda thing. Having been to a few shows, I can vouch for an incredibly racially inclusive show, even in semi-rural Tennessee. As a result, SPLC are the one who look like clowns to me. Their other shady actions are well-documented, so I will leave it at that. Their stated mission is a noble one, but I am not sure if their actions align with it. 

Admittedly, it is VERY difficult to find even a benign non-profit these days. I recall witnessing rampant open corruption in Make-A-Wish when I got community service for my 1st speeding ticket as part of a program for teens. I never forgot that. Always do your due diligence on anyone, no matter how lofty their goals, and well-respected their mission.

I support the fact that you guys are trying with your heart. You haven't lost a reader, or a forum member. You sure as heck can't play ball if you leave the stadium. I admire GRM being apolitical as possible, but also speaking up when its time, its a hard line to walk. Thank you. 

z31maniac said:

Nicole Suddard said:

In reply to z31maniac :

It's an AP Style Guide thing. 

I know, I have a BA in Journalism. I was just trying to inject a bit of levity in the midst of all the rancor. 

 

A BA in journalism??  Jeebus, why not just get the 18th century french lesbian literature degree if you wanted to squander your time and effort learning something.......

(my brother got a degree in journalism, we all mock him mercilessly for it)  (Insert Nelson Munch meme of "haha your industry is dying.")

Nugi said:

 

I have to pipe up here however, as a longtime poster. I think you made an honest mistake and missed the mark with the donation. I was more or less a fan, until SPLC labeled dedicated fans of the band Insane Clown Posse 'juggalos' a hate group. As a casual fan, I kind of object to that kinda thing. Having been to a few shows, I can vouch for an incredibly racially inclusive show, even in semi-rural Tennessee. As a result, SPLC are the one who look like clowns to me. Their other shady actions are well-documented, so I will leave it at that. Their stated mission is a noble one, but I am not sure if their actions align with it. 

Really. 

This is the same Insane Clown Posse that canceled an event at the beginning of the Coronivirus mess because they refuse to risk even ONE Juggalo life. Doesn't sound like a hate group to me. 

In reply to Nugi :

https://www.splcenter.org/hatewatch/2015/06/12/right-wing-sites-snookered-fake-stories-about-splc-hate-group-designations

This is fake SPLC never made these designations.  In this case as the source is the SPLC themselves I did not trust it so I used the waybackmachine to see if there is any mention of FOX or Juggalos being hate groups by the SPLC and then later deleted to cover their ass.   There just isn't any mention of them until this satire article came out and was then repeated and amplified by FOX without any modicum of fact checking.

There are media groups who do not care that they pass off satire as news and do not care to correct it when pointed out.   If your media does not care to provide you this info I would heavily recommend turning on incognito mode and search on topics yourself.  Incognito mode makes the various search algorithms not take into account your past reading and viewing habits and keeps you out of a bubble of information.   I regularly use it when researching topics.

I also want to mention that the satire site Free Woods Post did write the article mentioned by the SPLC defense and that article has since been deleted by Free Woods Post further corroborating the SPLCs defense.

https://web.archive.org/web/20150612181349/http://www.freewoodpost.com/2015/06/10/fox-news-declared-hate-group-by-southern-poverty-law-center/

KyAllroad (Jeremy) (Forum Supporter) said:

z31maniac said:

Nicole Suddard said:

In reply to z31maniac :

It's an AP Style Guide thing. 

I know, I have a BA in Journalism. I was just trying to inject a bit of levity in the midst of all the rancor. 

 

A BA in journalism??  Jeebus, why not just get the 18th century french lesbian literature degree if you wanted to squander your time and effort learning something.......

(my brother got a degree in journalism, we all mock him mercilessly for it)  (Insert Nelson Munch meme of "haha your industry is dying.")

I originally wanted to go into radio, since my specialization is Public Relations,  I've got the perfect face for it. :)

But realizing I could make more as a clerk at a gas station changed that. That's why I was a claim rep for State Farm right out of college, then went into Tech Writing. 

I'd love if I could get a job doing something for the OKC Thunder, for example. But I couldn't afford an entry-level salary. 

In reply to Maniac0301 :

Still. When the insane guys who dress up as clowns sound more sane than some of our politicians and journalists, these are strange times indeed.