VEERYYYY newbish how-to question

OK fellow DIY-ers. I just bought a pencil type $5.99 soldering tool cuz I got sick of twisting lil wire connections together under my hood and hoping they hold. I understand the basic idea:

heat metal, apply solder, etc etc.

I spent some time practicing on little bits of wire and connectors. Heres my problem: I can get the solder to melt into the wire no prblem, but it wont adhere to the connector 90% of the time. It beads up like water on oil. Is it cause Im not heating the connector enough before applying the actual solder? Im using "rosin core" wire solder...I guess that takes place of flux? Im not really sure what flux does.

Again, sorry to be so green.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BLfXXRfRIzY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MHNDa2Wvk8I this may help some

How big is the connector? Large connectors won't heat up enough with a little pencil iron. Actually, anything bigger than about 12 ga will be pretty hard to heat up with a small pencil iron. Next, wipe the tip of the iron. Some sand paper, concrete, whatever. Then plug it in and when it is hot, melt some solder on the end. Wipe that off while it is hot. A damp sponge is traditional, but paper, cardboard, whatever, just don't burn yourself. Now you have a "well tinned wiped off soldering iron." Put that on the solder joint. Get the thinnest solder that you can find. Radio Shack sells a small spool of real fine rosen core solder. That's what you want. Don't bother with anything else. Put the solder up against the joint and when it is hot enough, it will melt the solder and pull it into the joint. If it was beading up, your connector might not have been hot enough or it could have been dirty. A wire wheel in a Dremmel brand Mototool does wonders. Some sandpaper or whatever will work too.

Even if you're using the rosin core, use flux. You can buy little tubes (again, radio shack), and it helps quite a bit to draw the solder in. Don't be afraid, just squeeze a little dab on the joint you want to solder, then start heating...

(ps: it drips, and stains, so carry a piece of cardboard around, and don't do it directly over your face...)

The tiny soldering irons aren't all that powerful, but for small connectors should at least get the job done. The Doctor covered most of it, but here's one other trick. See if you can apply a bit of solder to the connector before you actually try soldering it to the wire. Then "tin" the end of the wire with a bit of solder. Once you've done that, you can touch the two parts together, touch them with the iron, and the solder on them will melt together, more or less. You may need a bit more solder, but often you won't.

And as this thread proves, there are no stupid questions. (And there's an unwritten rule stating that anyone replying with "do a search" gets a Chuck Norris kick to the chin; we're all here to share ideas and help.)

David S. Wallens wrote: And as this thread proves, there are no stupid questions. (And there's an unwritten rule stating that anyone replying with "do a search" gets a Chuck Norris kick to the chin; we're all here to share ideas and help.)

Thank goodness. I'm also on vwvortex, and the "search nazis" over there are as thick as soundproofing foam in the trunk. The Corrado forum's not too bad, but the A2 forum's just nuts.

And thanks to MadScientistMatt for the tip. I'd always tried to splice the two together, throw a few blobs of solder on the joint, and then use heat-shrink tube to hide my crime. The new forecast is for a stereo that actully works, and a fire extinguisher that lies unmolested long enough to be replaced..

As was mentioned, flux paste is what you need.

I would recommend going to harbor freight and picking up the Chicago Electric pistol grip soldering gun. It's usually under $20, comes with flux and solder, and has plenty of power...enough power that it will melt itself into a pool of dripping plastic if you really push it to the limit. >:)

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=4328

Dip both ends of the wire in a little bit of flux paste, twist them together, lay the wires on top of the tip of the gun (held horizontally) and pull the trigger. Feed solder into the top of the wires and it'll wick right in.

What is "tinning" the tip of the gun? I've seen it done, it makes the thing work better and solder do what it's supposed to, but how do you do it and would it help 4cylfurry?

Dan

Thanks guys. I tried all of the suggestions (minus the flux, cuz I didnt have any in the garage) and it worked well. I think I was applying the solder to the tip and not the joint. The wire I was testing on probably heated up due to its thin nature, but beaded on the connector cuz I wasnt actually applying heat to the connector. I heated the joint from the bottom, rather than the top, and it "sweated" right into the joint (using the tech terms like "sweating" makes me feel cooler ).

I appreciate everyones candid responses and not making me feel foolish. I really love this forum!!! I shouldve googled it first or looked at youtube, but I know the people here are a vast knowledge source, and would not sell me a bill of goods I didnt need. Much obliged fellas

it really is all in the iron... ive got half a dozen crap irons in my soldering toolbox (yes, i have separate box just for cooking wire.. ) an underpowered or bad iron can drive the frustration level to point where your ready to stick that iron through the neighbors eye just for saying hello... but i digress...

the real question is, what can you build by using all the old soldering irons? coffee warmer?

Dan, sometimes you gotta read the thread:

Next, wipe the tip of the iron. Some sand paper, concrete, whatever. Then plug it in and when it is hot, melt some solder on the end. Wipe that off while it is hot. A damp sponge is traditional, but paper, cardboard, whatever, just don't burn yourself. Now you have a "well tinned wiped off soldering iron."

Maybe it's the new board or something Doc; I get ! +0 Quote Replyacross those two sentences. Maybe it's the way the Gubbyment computer interprets GRM.

At the bottom of your most recent post, I see six colorful little boxes at the bottom left.

David S. Wallens wrote: ... there's an unwritten rule stating that anyone replying with "do a search" gets a Chuck Norris kick to the chin..

Not that I don't agree with you, but that last time I tried to use the search "it no worka to well"

To add to the responses: A good gun make a huge difference. If you find yourself doing a fair bit of soldering, do yourself a favor and get a good (at least $30) gun. Those pencil ones are still good for burning bolt holes in carpet, so don't get rid of them.

I agree that a good gun is the way to go. Cheap guns can be useful, if you know what you are buying. Sometimes you have to fix a cheap gun to get it to feed properly. Helwans are a good cheap gun, but there's usually something you have to fix, then you have an inexpensive reliable 9mm. SKS are a good cheap gun that won't need fixing at all. Right now, the best cheap gun you can buy is a Russian Mosin-Nagant. They're practically giving them away. Butt-ugly, though, and all the fine finish qualities that a communist country at war could provide. Generally any military gun you can get will be relatively cheap and quite reliable.

Oh, wait, SOLDERING guns... Well, I used my $5 soldering iron on my first two MegaSquirts, then when I built the little mini one for the Sportster, I broke down and bought a genuine solder station to do the fine work. Really nice. I have a HF solder gun. It works, but isn't too strong. On the larger connectors, like 0 guage or with 8 12 guage wires twisted together, I use a little butane micro torch if I have to, tinning everything before sticking it all together, as has been suggested. The wattage of the HF gun isn't very much more than a stout pencil iron.

(side note- Tim, what's going on with the reply to buttons? I move the mouse over "quote" or "reply" and they disappear...)

In reply to one of Dr, Hess's notes above- in terms of tinning the iron, I was always taught that after you clean it with your procedure, you put a small amount of solder on the end of the iron. What that does is provide a small pool of liquid to transfer heat better than just straight up contact.

So, what I would do- do your best to bind the wire to the pin, then with a tinned iron like how I suggest, hold the iron to the pin, and start scraping with the solder. Once hot enough, it will all melt together.

BUT.

And this is very, very important.

A solder-pin connection ISN'T always the best way. A good crimp connection is a lot better, one that crimps both the wire AND the insulation. The problem wiht solder and wire is that it stiffens the wire up a lot, which means that it's not good at absorbing movement. WIthin a box, where tension isn't a problem, it's not a big deal. But in a car wire harness, it's a problem. That's why you see all automotive connections a high quality crimp.

Eric

OOOH i never thought about the brittleness I will take that into concideration. Good point. Thanks!

Just hold out until you can find the really high quality, ratcheting crimp tool. They cost between $20-200, but if you are making an entire vehicle harness (which I will soon), they are very worth it.

E-

When soldering wire connections, remember that the solder is just to hold the joint together and protect it. The electrical connection itself is from twisting the wires together. That is, you don't just lay 2 wires along side each other and slather some solder on them. You twist the two wires together to form a strong mechanical and electrical connection, then you add solder to protect that connection. I like to crimp and then solder my "crimp on" ring and spade terminals.

The old "crimp v. solder" debate comes up every time someone asks how to solder, usually brought up by someone doing mil-spec or aircraft work professionally. Yeah, a properly done crimp connection with properly sized connectors for the wire you're using and proper tools may be a little better than a properly done solder connection. However, try getting all that equipment and the right connectors while you're working on your 20 year old car in your garage. Meanwhile, a good solder connection will last longer than the vehicle you're working on and is pretty easy to do once you learn how by following a few simple rules, such I have stated here.

Dr. Hess wrote: The old "crimp v. solder" debate comes up every time someone asks how to solder, usually brought up by someone doing mil-spec or aircraft work professionally. Yeah, a properly done crimp connection with properly sized connectors for the wire you're using and proper tools may be a little better than a properly done solder connection. However, try getting all that equipment and the right connectors while you're working on your 20 year old car in your garage. Meanwhile, a good solder connection will last longer than the vehicle you're working on and is pretty easy to do once you learn how by following a few simple rules, such I have stated here.

Although, getting the right tools, and pins isn't all that hard. I know a source locally where you can get them- both a good crimping tool and the correct pins- and that for the old fashioned blade connectors seen on my Alfa.

I have no problem with people soldering their connectors, as long as they know the debate. A crip connector using a hardware store pair of strippers is just as bad, sure. And one needs to invest in good quality parts, too.

Oh, one other note- don't solder the pins that lead toward an O2 sensor. As odd as it sounds, the O2 sensor breathes through the wire (the voltage is from a difference in O2 across the element, so it needs air). If you solder it, more than likely, it will seal up the end of the wire... True story. Got the info directly from one of our suppliers.

Eric

Other than the aforementioned inability to bend, I have not had any problems with anything I have soldered. With a little forethought, that can easily be worked around. The cheapo hardware store crimp type terminals are at best a stopgap and I would love to throttle the clown who invented the Scotchlok.

A properly done crimp is, like alfadriver says, hard (if not impossible) to do without the proper tool matched to the terminal you are working with, like the Weatherpack stuff. If that's done and it's properly sealed from moisture it's probably the best way to put a terminal on.

VW insisted that soldering NOT be done due to what they called the 'inability to assure a proper field repair'. Yeah, right. They supplied a wiring repair kit with all kinds of splices and stuff, the damn thing was like $2000 and the replacement terminals were only available from VW, of course. Soldering would be done with locally sourced stuff that there was no profit in.

VW's method of attaching the wires to the teminal was to use a spot welder. Basically it clamped the copper conductor to the terminal and then heated it with DC voltage to fuse the two together. As much trouble as VW's wiring gave, I don't think they were on the right track.