Wally wrote: In some of the articles it sounds like HAL won't let you turn the ignition off or shift the tranny if the car is at speed.
they're japanese... obviously they've turned cars into evil.....
ZOMG..
They've done it to ponies now... RUN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
There's been more than one crash here people. While yes, the floormat in the highly publicized Cali event was the wrong one for the car (still a Lexus mat in a Lexus, NOT aftermarket) there have been over two dozen other deaths reported. Some of those have been with no floormat.
Um. How many cars does Toyota make that have the capacity to overcome the braking force that their cars are able to produce? Accelerator stuck? TRY THE BRAKES!
mtn wrote: yeah... I'm gonna go ahead and say that in the case of anyone who was killed by the floormat/accelerator thing... uh... well, Darwin's theory at work here. How hard is it to turn off the car? Or shift to neutral?
seriously...push button start = hard to "Turn off the car", and the shifter in the z pattern with detents for manumatic shifting could be reasonably difficult for someone not familiar with it...toss in a healthy dose of "holy jeebus christ we're all gonna die" adrenaline/panic, and youre doubly screwed. In the case where the CHiPs officer crashed the 200+ hp V8 Lexus in Cali rush hour traffic, the car was a loaner for his older model lexus having work done. He had just picked it up a few hours before = he didnt know squat about it. Most of us are gearheads who know our vehicles intimately (
) so to us it sounds preposterous not to simply shift a car into neutral when its going ZOMGVRRRRRRR on a crowded freeway on its own. But imagine your average soccermom or dumbtarded teen girl on her phone...then put them in a rental and have all that go wrong = recipe for death. The fact that officer didnt take down a fistfull of other cars on that freeway is seriously a pat on the back to his high speed driving training...probably beats the pants off a lot of us "race car drivers". Lets all take a moment and think before we speak shall we?
confuZion3 wrote: Um. How many cars does Toyota make that have the capacity to overcome the braking force that their cars are able to produce? Accelerator stuck? TRY THE BRAKES!
Almost all vehicle manufacturers make cars that can overcome the brakes...when the gass pedal is mashed thru the floorboards.
WOT = almost no vacuum = almost no brake assist.
jeesh
This is beginning to sound like the AUDI fiasco years ago.
Um, I think I need to contact Ford about my 96 Ranger. The crappy floormat occasionally gets stuck over the accelerator pedal and the throttle sticks. Blip the throttle and the pedal just stays further down. I have to reach down and move the damn thing out of the way fer christs sake. Is it my problem that the crappy floor mats that I got 11 years ago from Walmart are the problem? I think not, it must be Fords fault. Oh wait, Wallyworld has tons of cash too. Its their fault also.
Now where is my phone book full of law office listings?
As it turns out, the floormat on the Lexus had been stuck and caused unintended acceleration for a previous driver (it was a loaner car). He just hit the brakes hard, put it in neutral, pulled over and dislodged the mat.
I have one of those big stupid floormats in my 944 temporarily. It gets stuck on a regular basis. I just pull it back from time to time. I once had a Scirocco where I "fixed" a broken throttle spring with some coat hanger wire. That sucker used to get stuck at WOT on a regular basis. I could free it by pulling up on the pedal with my foot. Of course, I was only trying to control 73 raging horses with that car.
I've only experienced one stuck gas pedal, 'twas caused by a bunched up floor mat and it happened in a customers 1988 Ferrari Testarossa. I definitely experienced hjcwagd* but I still had no trouble flipping the ignition to accessory, removing the mat and carrying on with an even bigger grin on my face.
*holy jeebus christ we're all gonna die
poopshovel wrote: Having watched the news last night, it seems as though there's some speculation that the problem might not be with the floor mats, but with the drive by wire.
I was just going to ask if you all are really buying the floor mat excuse. It's obviously the drive-by-wire. Not the first E-throttle to get stuck wide open, won't be the last...
The DBW thing is an interesting problem. The Bosch systems have a smart throttle that cuts out when the brake and gas are applied at the same time. Works well. The track guys don't like it because you can't left foot brake, but it's safer than no intervention.
FWIW, the report I read on the Lexus stated a combination of stuck throttle, push button ignition and difficult to understand PRNDL control. The throttle stuck, the push button requires holding the button for 3 seconds to turn the engine off and the PRNDL stalk was in an odd location.
speedblind wrote: FWIW, the report I read on the Lexus stated a combination of stuck throttle, push button ignition and difficult to understand PRNDL control. The throttle stuck, the push button requires holding the button for 3 seconds to turn the engine off and the PRNDL stalk was in an odd location.
After valeting cars this summer, I have to ask: What was wrong with the key?
as in what was wrong with including keys in an ignition setup in cars in general, or what was wrong with the key in the Lexus/California/CHiPs officer incident? Because "look, Im a suburban $50,000.00-aire, and I like shiney gadgets like push button start in my hi-po luxo sedan" is what happened - a solution to a non-existent problem if you ask me. Now if youre asking the second question, please re-read this entire post
254 deaths hmmmm
http://www.autoblog.com/2009/11/12/nhtsa-to-investigate-3-million-1993-2004-jeep-grand-cherokee-ove/
errrr whiskey tango foxtrot? its not a bash yoda thread, its a bash ridiculousity in auto-design thread.
What ever happened to personal responsability? If you drive around with a tank of highly flamamable liquid you have to expect to catch fire now and then. The lawyers are ruining America. 
Datsun1500 wrote:ignorant wrote: 254 deaths hmmmm http://www.autoblog.com/2009/11/12/nhtsa-to-investigate-3-million-1993-2004-jeep-grand-cherokee-ove/Don't you know this is a bash Toyota thread? Don't go throwing a domestic into the mix...
besides, that potential recall is irrelevant, as most Grand Cherokees were turned in for CFC
Tried this in my GTI. Both throttle and brakes to the floor. After two seconds the car kills the throttle. Seems like this would've been a much easier solution than replacing a few million pedals.
In reply to ignorant:
i think i remember a 60 minutes or a dateline about this way back in the day, turns out that the gas pedal is shifted to the left because of the size of the transmission tunnel, and ends up about where the brake pedal would be on most cars in relation to the seating position. so inattentive people would think they were on the brake, and the thing just takes off faster.
skruffy wrote: Tried this in my GTI. Both throttle and brakes to the floor. After two seconds the car kills the throttle. Seems like this would've been a much easier solution than replacing a few million pedals.
Yep. VW, MB and probably all the other Germans use the Bosch system. Pretty cool.
ignorant wrote: 254 deaths hmmmm http://www.autoblog.com/2009/11/12/nhtsa-to-investigate-3-million-1993-2004-jeep-grand-cherokee-ove/
A receiver hitch is a nice fix for that problem. I got rear ended in my 95 ZJ by a Cavalier (one with a pointy front end, I guess 99 or so) and he got nowhere near my gas tank. That day I was glad that I left the drop bar in there.
Strizzo wrote: In reply to ignorant: i think i remember a 60 minutes or a dateline about this way back in the day, turns out that the gas pedal is shifted to the left because of the size of the transmission tunnel, and ends up about where the brake pedal would be on most cars in relation to the seating position. so inattentive people would think they were on the brake, and the thing just takes off faster.
this is a burst into flames issue
not a gas pedal run away engine issue.
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