Corona Vaccine - Anyone getting it?

Okay, we've had a little time-out, so let's open this thread back up. I would just refer everyone back to this, suggest you read the first post as a refresher: https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/off-topic-discussion/forum-rules-welcome-to-the-party/104340/page1/

I'm curious what everyone's opinion is on the best way to distribute it. IMHO, it has been pretty atrocious from a federal and state level. At one end, I'd like to have it be a relatively open market, but until the supply is large enough I shudder when I think of the moral proposition of that... Except when you consider that we have vaccines that are being thrown away because they weren't used in time. I also wonder if it would make sense to get hte first doses out entirely, and then focus on the second dose, like the UK is doing. I doubt that there would be any reduction in efficacy from doing that, and more of the population gets SOME protection in the interim. 

I read this from the former FDA director, Scott Gottlieb, and I think he raises some very good points. I agree with him, though I'm assuming (safe assumption, I think) that he has far more insight into the production capability and expectations than I do. 

Short term problem, once we have enough of the population vaccinated and supply is enough, this will be a non-issue and we'll just get it when we get our flu shot. 

In reply to mtn (Forum Supporter) :

Ideally you handle it on the smallest civic group who can do such a thing. Distribute to the states evenly proportion to their population. The governor supplies it to counties equal in proportion to their population. Everyone in health care direct patient contact is in group A. Everyone who wants to be in the next group get your doctor to set you into the next grouping based on your situation, maybe give the doc the option of three priorities. Everyone else is in the last group.

Risk factor. Since we know that the highest risk group is above 65, that should be the priority. I mean, how else do you handle anything that has shown defined parameters like that? You start with the high risk and work backwards. If you are trying to make you project run, you don't prioritize making the hubcaps shine. You make sure it has fuel and spark. This should be no different. 

I agree completely, but that is ostensibly how it is being done now, and I'd argue that it isn't good enough. Some snippets from various states: 

Utah: Salt Lake City: Less than a quarter of the 127,375 doses of COVID-19 vaccine reportedly received in the state have been used to vaccinate health care providers and long-term care facility residents and staff as of the end of the year, Deseret News reports. “The initial rollout of the vaccine has been slow, slower than anticipated, slower than we wanted,” said Rich Lakin, immunization program director with the Utah Department of Health. 

New Jersey: Trenton: More than 70% of the state’s supply of COVID-19 vaccine had not been used as of Thursday, echoing a national trend of slow distribution, according to data released by state officials. Of the 265,000 doses of the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines that have been delivered to New Jersey, 72,657 residents had been given a shot by Thursday afternoon.  

California: 

The 454,000 doses of vaccine that have been administered in California represent just a third of the more than nearly 1.3 million received in the state so far, according to the California Department of Public Health.

 

New York: Governor Andrew Cuomo blamed the delays on vaccine distribution across New York on the hospitals who are tasked with giving it to front-line healthcare workers, and threatened to seize their vaccine supplies if they aren’t used up within the next week.

At a press conference on Monday, the governor said that just 46% of all the vaccines allocated to hospitals across the state have been used in the three weeks since they began receiving them. Around 300,000 New Yorkers have received the first dose of the vaccine so far, including hospital workers, nursing home residents, and nursing home staff.

“This is a management issue of the hospitals,” Cuomo said. “They have to move the vaccine and they have to move the vaccine faster.”

Most states have issues like this. New York had to throw away "a bunch" (not sure how much it was). These vaccines are have a very short shelf life, if we don't speed up the process, we could be looking at throwing away millions of expired doses.

Hopefully this is just the early teething pains and I'll look back at this post and say that it was a premature judgement of our rollout so far, but this should have been figured out well before we had them distributed to hospitals. 

There is the problem of getting enough for a list of first responders and then having some of them refuse the vaccine. Instead of letting it go bad, the vaccine will go to whoever is nearby whether they qualify or not. People will complain about this but if the alternative is to throw the vaccine away I don't see a problem there. 

I still don't get the Florida thing where you have people over 65 waiting in long lines. Some people in that age group actually have problems standing up for long periods of time. Here in Texas you can sign up online and come in when it's your time. Don't other states have access to the internet? 

In reply to mtn (Forum Supporter) :

I disagree. We're seeing legislators, congress critters etc getting the vaccine in front of the cameras for photo ops. You know this is a waste of time and resources. But once again the ruling class is what it is.

bobzilla said:

Risk factor. Since we know that the highest risk group is above 65, that should be the priority. I mean, how else do you handle anything that has shown defined parameters like that? You start with the high risk and work backwards. If you are trying to make you project run, you don't prioritize making the hubcaps shine. You make sure it has fuel and spark. This should be no different. 

This is a nice idea, but breaks down in use. Example: My State Is prioritizing the obese. I feel front line workers should all be vaccinated before a non-health conscious group. 

And, yes, this does show my prejudice. I took a Sociology class in college that gave a group of 50 people described by title/livlihood (weldor, Rabbi, butcher, teacher, etc.). An A-bomb was to be dropped, and you could only save 20. Who do you take into your shelter. This stuff is tough. 

In reply to wheelsmithy (Joe-with-an-L) (Forum Supporter) :

I love how everyone assumes that because you're obese its because you're lazy and don't care about their health. In my family, thyroid issues ran rampant in the women. What made it worse was their body would get used to the medicine that helped control it and they had to start all over. 

I'm obese because depression, midwest winters, E36 M3ty year and E36 M3ty people make me not care and the only thing that helps is food. But no one cares about that. 

Maybe we need to hand all of it off to CVS and Walgreens to distribute. Possibly use WalMart Pharmacies as well. Big companies that deal well with logistics and ship pharmaceuticals that need refrigeration on a daily basis would handle it better than hospitals that are already overwhelmed with too many patients in the ICU or governments that have no clue. 

Everybody signs up online, just like they do the flu shots. You come in when it's your time.  Everybody who doesn't have internet access can go to their local library. What's so hard about that? 

Snowdoggie (Forum Supporter) said:

Maybe we need to hand all of it off to CVS and Walgreens to distribute. Possibly use WalMart Pharmacies as well. Big companies that deal well with logistics and ship pharmaceuticals that need refrigeration on a daily basis would handle it better than hospitals that are already overwhelmed with too many patients in the ICU or governments that have no clue. 

Everybody signs up online, just like they do the flu shots. You come in when it's your time.  Everybody who doesn't have internet access can go to their local library. What's so hard about that? 

Or they can call in and make an appointment. Set up a direct line with operators to log their times. Honestly the best idea I've seen yet. We already know the most inefficient way to get something done is involve the gov't. Private sector, if monitored, is usually faster, more efficient and cheaper.

bobzilla said:

Snowdoggie (Forum Supporter) said:

Maybe we need to hand all of it off to CVS and Walgreens to distribute. Possibly use WalMart Pharmacies as well. Big companies that deal well with logistics and ship pharmaceuticals that need refrigeration on a daily basis would handle it better than hospitals that are already overwhelmed with too many patients in the ICU or governments that have no clue. 

Everybody signs up online, just like they do the flu shots. You come in when it's your time.  Everybody who doesn't have internet access can go to their local library. What's so hard about that? 

Or they can call in and make an appointment. Set up a direct line with operators to log their times. Honestly the best idea I've seen yet. We already know the most inefficient way to get something done is involve the gov't. Private sector, if monitored, is usually faster, more efficient and cheaper.

And, no matter where you are in the US, you're probably within 15 minutes of at least 1 CVS or Walgreens. 

bobzilla said:

In reply to wheelsmithy (Joe-with-an-L) (Forum Supporter) :

I love how everyone assumes that because you're obese its because you're lazy and don't care about their health. In my family, thyroid issues ran rampant in the women. What made it worse was their body would get used to the medicine that helped control it and they had to start all over. 

I'm obese because depression, midwest winters, E36 M3ty year and E36 M3ty people make me not care and the only thing that helps is food. But no one cares about that. 

I'm 5'8, 200 lbs, and in pretty darn good health-still termed medically obese. I wouldn't agree if the clinically depressed people got top priority, either, nor smokers, nor WFH folks, but as I already admitted, those are my prejudices. I meant no attack on your, nor anyone's weight.

I think front line health workers first (can't help people if you're dead), followed by Old folks (most likely to die, if infected), Somewhere near the top, Police, Firefighters, EMT, and all the folks in our society that rescue, save lives, etc, supermarket employees, and on down the way. I'd be near the last vaccinated in my great plan. No doubt, were I the decider, someone would still compare me to a certain WWII Axis leader.

And Bob, I care. I mean that sincerely. Keep your chin up.

Mom's nursing home is getting hers from a 24 hour CVS five blocks from her nursing home. It's also right off of a major freeway. They actually have the cooler that the Pfizer stuff needs. Earlier this year my insurance company sent me to another CVS two miles from my house where I got my flu shot. This one actually had a small clinic in the store for things like that. This is in Dallas, but there has to be a Wal Mart with a Pharmacy near just about every small town and rural area in the US. Wal Mart ships all kinds of medicines into those stores every day of the week. You know some of these medicines require freezing and special handling. 

I really think that after the front line health care workers get first access, it should be wide open and operated on a no-reserve just-in-time mentality.

Vaccine doses mustn't sit. If we make 8 million doses per week in January, we can either have 32 million people get their first dose in January and need one in February, or we can have fewer than 32 million people vaccinated in January. If I have to stand in a line for an hour three times to be told that we've run out today, I'll come back on the fourth day just the same. 

Priority 1: 2nd dose for anyone who's gotten the first one.

Priority 2: Anyone with a waiting arm. Does it matter whether you didn't get sick because you were vaccinated, or you didn't get sick because the person who would've gotten you sick was vaccinated?

As inconvient as it would be, I suspect the most effective way to get the most doses in the most arms in the least number of days would be to have three (or four or five, whatever the classifications are) lines.  Allow your top priority group to make appointments and then send your mobile folks out to the care facilities.  When they come back they take any remaining doses and start jabbing folks.  If you aren't there for your appointment, you lose out for now.  When all the appointments are finished, take the front of the highest priority line, jab them, then repeat until you're out of people or out of doses.

To add to what I just posted, would you rather have 32 million including 15 million in high risk or high contact groups vaccinated at the end of the month, or 20 million all in those right groups vaccinated at the end of the month?

This is America, where we're supposed to be equal, and we all have to get our second shot before Memorial Day if we are to be free by the 4th of July.

I'm only for CVS being involved if no receipt will be given. If receipts are given you can kiss what's left of the rainforest goodbye. 

Got me and my office a vaccination slot for next Tuesday!  Woot!!  Moderna vaccine...

In reply to wae :

We could also do a virtual line like at the Michigan Secretary of State's office - sign up for a spot and be automatically texted to show up within 20 minutes if a dose is available for you. 

In reply to chaparral :

Our gov here in KY has been talking about something close to that.  Basically he wants a way for anyone who wants the vaccine to be able to register so that when there are available shots but no available arms the provider would have a list to start calling.

In an unrelated note, if you do the math based on the number of doses that they allege the pharmacist at the hospital destroyed versus what they said the total value was, this vaccine costs $20/shot.  Since you need two, make it $40 to get vaccinated.  That seems like a hell of a bargain to me.

In reply to wae :

Now, the question is will this vaccine continue to work on this as it continues to evolve with new strains? 

In reply to bobzilla :

Apparently they feel pretty good about the new UK strain that they found, but there's one from South Africa, I believe, that they're a little more worried about.

I'm fine with the vaccination priority order the way it is, but I think there is an alternate. 
 

After front line workers, I wish there was a way to identify the super spreaders. I think a case could be made for them being vaccinated before elderly. 
 

For example, my mother and me. My mother is 87 with several health issues. Her risk is very high, but her exposure is very low. She's been isolated for 9 months and never interacts with anyone. Not only is it unlikely she will get it, it's almost impossible she will spread it. 
 

Meanwhile, I am technically an essential worker, and have not missed a day of work since the beginning. I do my best to be careful, but I travel 1000 miles a week, and interact with hundreds of people weekly.

Its more likely I could spread the virus to a much larger number of people than my mother.

Note: This is just an example. I'm not lobbying to "jump in line". I wouldn't want to.  But I see this as a viable approach to distribution (though I also realize it won't happen). 

captdownshift (Forum Supporter) said:

I'm only for CVS being involved if no receipt will be given. If receipts are given you can kiss what's left of the rainforest goodbye. 

Does CVS give you the option of getting the receipt via email?