Yes, frustrating.
Yes, frustrating.
For prevention, the best thing to do is to only meet people outside, and wear an N95 mask around them. They're now readily available at Lowe's. If you're not working in a client-facing position, 8 hours of runtime should let you get a week out of it.
In reply to chaparral :
If I am understanding correctly, the face coverings are not to stop the virus, but to stop the transmission of droplets, that may contain the virus - at risk of over simplifying. If this is correct, then how does a N95 mask help better? And if not correct, and the face covering IS to stop the virus, then the virus is small enough to pass through the N95 mask as well. I hear people say to use the N95, but having had some training in the use of resperators (a N95.mask can not be used in industry if a resperator is required) I have not heard any facts to support a N95 helping more than any suitable 2 layer face mask.
In reply to 03Panther :
Someone who is in close contact with several groups of people frequently, and if they get an asymptomatic case could infect many people. For example, a teacher could be within spreading distance of six different classes plus the faculty in the teachers' lounge. A minister making rounds in-person to check on parishioners who don't have good access to telephone or internet could both pick it up anywhere and be in contact with many vulnerable people. An engineer who visits several factories could cause an interstate outbreak.
As for how to classify it? I think it's better for us to move quickly to vaccinating those who are most willing over those who are most vulnerable, but if I were a state representative trying to work out what the law should be for January and February, I'd start the argument with wanting to vaccinate someone whose job depends on seeing ten people in person in a week.
Obivoulsy I understand the things you just said. But how does any of that relate to N95 vs any other face covering?
We've been told over and over how to prevent it: As much as possible, avoid people that aren't in your household, wear masks, keep distant, and meet people outside.
The vitamin D thing has been well reported. We've gotten much better at treating it with regeneron, remdesivir, and probably most importantly, blood thinners, but that still isn't great. If we compare it to cars, the vitamin D and the treatments would be analogous to Airbags. The vaccine, meanwhile, is disc brakes, seatbelts, crumple zones, head rests, and collapsing steering columns all in one convenient shot. Might get a bruise from the seatbelt.
In reply to 03Panther :
N95 is tight enough to stop the virus from going through - check the first graph here.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2452199X20301481
In reply to mtn (Forum Supporter) :
We have also been told, over and over, many things. A few have turned out to not only be correct, but also stay correct as new information is learned. Just saying things over and over does not make them correct.
That being said, I think everyone now agrees with your simple steps, with the caveat of "wear masks" - when you have to be around others and cant keep distance.
Subscriber-unavailabile said:In reply to preach :
And this is what berkeleying pisses me off. Us Americans are not being told how to help ourselves, only to be scared and hide..
and that's a report from April.....
The BEST thing to help yourself is to avoid other people. Period.
That isn't being "be scared and hide", that is sensible precautions.
Being around other people may kill you. Or, being around other people may kill one of them. It's that simple.
"But I wanna get my hair did", the populace whined.
In reply to chaparral :
Thanks for the link. I'll have to compare that to all the earlier science that said it would not. I don't remember what micron a N95 mask will filter down to, or what size this current virus is, but if a N95 mask will in fact stop this virus, it must be an order of magnitude larger than other viruses before it.
In reply to chaparral :
I got a chance to skim through that study, farther then the first few sentiencies of the summary. I don't think it says what you think it does. It is a study of effectively blocking droplets, not the virus, as you stated. The N95 mask will NOT stop the virus.
It even, at one point, states that "It has been indicated that surgical masks and facemasks by taking advantage of electrothermal layers can be more effective than N95s" in referring to stopping the droplets.
The best way to keep from spreading your droplets, is to keep your distance from other people. If you are doing that, face masks are redundant.
03Panther said:In reply to chaparral :
I don't look on here too often, so pardon if this question has been addressed. But legit. question. What does "superspreaders" mean? and how would one self identify?
Honestly, I misused the term a bit.
A "superspreader event" is one that happens with minimal protections in place and is perceived to be a locale that can easily spread the virus.
I used the term to describe myself, and others who travel a lot and mingle with a lot of people and therefore create some risk.
I'm not a spreader (as far as I know). But I recognize the risk.
03Panther said:Are you thinking of anything specific when you mention "unintended consequences"?
Nope. That would not be "unintended"! 
In reply to Pete. (l33t FS) :
Here in lies the issue. I'm in the last group that'll be eligible for vaccine, but I'm front line worker. I have deliveries today for 12 different stores in 4 different towns. I don't have an option to avoid people, people need their goods. All I can do is help boost my immunity and know what actions to take if I do catch it.
In reply to 03Panther :
As I understand it, all masks are about stopping the droplets, but the virus rarely exists outside of those droplets. When it does, it is pretty fragile and doesn't persist for very long - especially outdoors. The other thing to take in to consideration is the infectious dose. You have to be exposed to some minimum level of virus load in order to become infected. This amount varies by individual and although the infectious dose for SARS-CoV-2 is lower than more common viruses, it's likely more than one viral strand. Even if a single virus were to exist free floating and make it through the mask, it's much less dangerous than the microdroplets which could contain hundreds of active virus.
It's all about playing the percentages. No solution is 100% other than removing yourself from society completely. Wearing a mask gives you some increased percentage against catching it (although it may be small) and gives a better percentage against transmitting it to someone else.
I'm wearing multi-layer KN95 masks these days because I get a better seal around the edges on them. The filtering capability is probably a toss-up with the surgical mask if you have a perfect fit, but I feel like a better seal means more of the air is actually filtered. Again, it's all about playing the percentages.
ultraclyde (Forum Supporter) said:In reply to 03Panther :
As I understand it, all masks are about stopping the droplets, but the virus rarely exists outside of those droplets. When it does, it is pretty fragile and doesn't persist for very long - especially outdoors. The other thing to take in to consideration is the infectious dose. You have to be exposed to some minimum level of virus load in order to become infected. This amount varies by individual and although the infectious dose for SARS-CoV-2 is lower than more common viruses, it's likely more than one viral strand. Even if a single virus were to exist free floating and make it through the mask, it's much less dangerous than the microdroplets which could contain hundreds of active virus.
It's all about playing the percentages. No solution is 100% other than removing yourself from society completely. Wearing a mask gives you some increased percentage against catching it (although it may be small) and gives a better percentage against transmitting it to someone else.
I'm wearing multi-layer KN95 masks these days because I get a better seal around the edges on them. The filtering capability is probably a toss-up with the surgical mask if you have a perfect fit, but I feel like a better seal means more of the air is actually filtered. Again, it's all about playing the percentages.
I think this is a large miscommunication, at least with the people I interact with on a daily basis. I hear a lot of guys I work with saying 'well we've been masking for months and it's only getting worse!' without realizing masks aren't a guarantee. They just boost your odds. And with how many dicks I see hanging out I can't imagine those odds are being boosted very well.
Pete. (l33t FS) said:Subscriber-unavailabile said:In reply to preach :
And this is what berkeleying pisses me off. Us Americans are not being told how to help ourselves, only to be scared and hide..
and that's a report from April.....
The BEST thing to help yourself is to avoid other people. Period.
That isn't being "be scared and hide", that is sensible precautions.
Being around other people may kill you. Or, being around other people may kill one of them. It's that simple.
"But I wanna get my hair did", the populace whined.
There are times when I really want to just hide out and be a hermit. Usually after one of those busy days at work when the phone is ringing all the time and half the time it's some kind of salesman. It's not about covid or being scared as much as it is seeking quiet for meditation, reading and self reflection. I might take the dogs with me but I don't really want to be around other people all that much.
So, some worrying news that I've been reading is saying that the South African mutation may be vaccine resistant. It sounds like the vaccine can be easily modified to account for it, but that will still be a while. Hopefully it doesn't run rampant.
EDIT: And all the more reason to get the vaccines we do have ASAP. Don't let it mutate more.
So, back to the distribution problems... My MIL is supposed to receive her second dose in a week. Her colleagues that received their first dose a week earlier than her have told her, they don't have the second dose to give yet. I've heard similar stories from nurses and resp techs I know that are at different hospitals, but in the same system and same state - probably one of the 20 largest systems in the US.
How has the state not distributed the vaccines to the hospitals yet? WTF?
I'm also not entirely sure how my MIL got the vaccine. She is a nurse, and works for a hospital, but she's in coding/billing/insurance, and has been working from home since before the pandemic. I'm guessing that it was offered by the hospital since she is part of the union, and one of less than 1% of the union that works at home. In any case, I'm happy she got it as my FIL will be relatively low on the list, and my MIL is a 63 year old former smoker with MS, so she is very high risk, and should have been pretty close to the top of the list in terms of risk-if-she-got-it and high risk of getting it from her husband.
In reply to mtn (Forum Supporter) :
My brother works for the local hospital system and he's got a date for his shot already. He's in IT and works in a building that is down the road from the actual hospital. Apparently, they're going to give it to every single employee no matter how close they are to actual patients.
Here is a good article on what mtn is talking about:
https://www.the-scientist.com/news-opinion/south-african-sars-cov-2-variant-alarms-scientists-68317
Some highlights:
In the unlikely scenario that the variant significantly lowers a vaccine’s efficacy, Bell estimates that it would take four to six weeks to develop a modified vaccine.
The word "unlikely" is hopeful.
Like the UK variant, scientists suspect that 501.V2 is more infectious than other strains of SARS-CoV-2 are
In particular interest to the current faster spreading variant (the one from England):
“The E484K mutation has been shown to reduce antibody recognition,” he says, which may help the virus bypass immune protection provided by prior infection or vaccination. However, he says that the mutation is not sufficient for the variant to bypass the protection provided by vaccines.
In other words: if you got COVID, you can very likely get the new (English) strain. The note about prior vaccination is a bit confusing (and I suspect does not refer to COVID vaccinations?)
wae said:In reply to mtn (Forum Supporter) :
My brother works for the local hospital system and he's got a date for his shot already. He's in IT and works in a building that is down the road from the actual hospital. Apparently, they're going to give it to every single employee no matter how close they are to actual patients.
That is probably what it was. I'd assume that over 95% of a hospitals employees are in the hospital or outpatient clinic at least 2x a week, even now, so easier/safer/better to just give it to everyone.
In reply to Subscriber-unavailabile :
I'm in a similar boat, I'm around the great unwashed all day, in hospitals a couple times a week and will likely be in the last groups. I'm not too worried as my antibody levels are still pretty high which should help fight reinfection but for people that haven't had it yet it would be nice to move things along quicker.
mtn (Forum Supporter) said:So, back to the distribution problems... My MIL is supposed to receive her second dose in a week. Her colleagues that received their first dose a week earlier than her have told her, they don't have the second dose to give yet. I've heard similar stories from nurses and resp techs I know that are at different hospitals, but in the same system and same state - probably one of the 20 largest systems in the US.
How has the state not distributed the vaccines to the hospitals yet? WTF?
I'm also not entirely sure how my MIL got the vaccine. She is a nurse, and works for a hospital, but she's in coding/billing/insurance, and has been working from home since before the pandemic. I'm guessing that it was offered by the hospital since she is part of the union, and one of less than 1% of the union that works at home. In any case, I'm happy she got it as my FIL will be relatively low on the list, and my MIL is a 63 year old former smoker with MS, so she is very high risk, and should have been pretty close to the top of the list in terms of risk-if-she-got-it and high risk of getting it from her husband.
Mrs. Snowdoggie has a friend who works in a call center run by a hospital. She isn't a first responder. She works in a building down the street from the hospital where no patients go. She got the vaccine last week. My Mom won't get it till Friday. Another employee in Mom's nursing home was infected last night. Sometimes all you can do is sit there and grind your teeth.
I think that the State just gives the vaccine to the hospitals to distribute as they see fit. The nursing home doses go through CVS and go just to the nursing homes.
wae said:In reply to mtn (Forum Supporter) :
My brother works for the local hospital system and he's got a date for his shot already. He's in IT and works in a building that is down the road from the actual hospital. Apparently, they're going to give it to every single employee no matter how close they are to actual patients.
This makes sense, because they are in contact with other hospital workers, and so forth.
Gotta start somewhere and draw lines somewhere, right?
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