dealer scams and tactics...

the bill heard chevy thread made me curious about scams and tactics dealerships use. Im pretty staunch about what i want and what ill pay, so the few times ive dealt with new car dealers, ive either gotten my way or walked out (walked out more often than not.)

The most recent, was at a local VW dealership when we bought our 08 rabbit. We did the math ahead of time, and after considering the rabbit we (well, she) wanted, decided to trade in 01 mustang which was about 5,000 miles short of loosing a cylinder in my best case scenario. we wanted to drive out for a max of 17k after all, including taxes etc. we fully disclosed the condition of the stang, told them all we cared about was the out the door price, making things rather simple. Told them we were willing to pay 16.5k , they came back with 17k and we did the deal. IT seemed a fair price where everyone would be happy.. not a bargain, but fair.

Well, in FL and many other states you can drive the car home the same day, and we did. However, the dealer is not required to have all the paperwork finalized when they give you the keys, and they certainly didnt tell us that, as far as we were concerned, it was a done deal, wed signed off on all the paperwork, handed over the stang, and drove out in the wabbit.. four days later the dealer calls, telling us there'd been a "problem" with our financing package, and wed have to go back in to "fix" it. we go in and they tell us very apologetically that the finance package had been declined by VAG , BUT they could fix it by going with another company for "just a bit more a month" and show us the numbers they had worked up in advance. Im not a numbers guy, but it was obvious there had been some serious manipulation in the figures and the base price had also been "adjusted." they told us they had to do some "recalculation" to ensure the new finance company would approve it (bullsh*t, bullsh#t and more BS..) After listening for a few minutes, I got a bit ticked off, and told them either they honor the original deal, or bring the stang around, at which point the g/f puts the rabbit keys on the guys desk (i was so proud!) The finance guy went a bit pale, excused himself, came back a few minutes later with the dealer manager who tries to sweet talk us. We repeated our assertion ,pointed to the keys and tell him to either produce the mustang, or cut us a check for its blue book value. Well, suddenly they want to "try VAG again..." the the finance guy gets on the phone. wouldnt you know it, suddenly were "approved" , dont have to sign anything else at all, and are out the door in 10 minutes, driving the wabbit home for good this time.

After asking around a bit, I found out that this is a common tactic with dealers down here. they use these "sign and drive" events to get the car out of the door, then call back a few days later after you "love the car" already, shown all your friends, etc..then pump up the financing charges, back end charges etc, try and squeeze as much extra money as they can out of the deal, so a 17k out the door car suddenly becomes a 23k car, plus a higher interest rate, which apparently the dealer gets more revenue from. the guys in our dealership should've got an oscar for their performance. In the end they not only lost the bump price/finance revenue they tried to scam out of us, but also the chance to sell me a new GTI...which I was "this close" to closing the deal on as well, but had wanted to make sure the rabbit and the dealer lived up to their promises. At least the rabbit did anyhow, awesome little car.. I guess they pull this crap all the time around here from what im hearing, and usually get away with it as well..

what else do they do? I may be in the market again soon..

New car dealer scum is why I gave up after a month of looking and bought a used P71. I haven't regretted that decision since. Why have a car payment when I have two paid off cars and in the past year attended 12 autocrosses (with 3 more to go), 10 drag days (with 2 more to go), 2 HPDE's, and spectated at a Rally America event and about a dozen other car events? My "car payment" buys mods, entry fees, and still has enough left over for burgers.

Forget new cars, and FORGET dealers. All my stuff is Private party, and will continue to be.

I had a similar thing when I bought my Liberty. It was a clean buy, no trade in. We made the deal and the order was placed, they didn't have what I wanted in stock. A couple days later, the salesman calls me and says he needs $250 more since they would be selling below cost,which I knew was bull. So I said, " We made a deal and you will not be loosing money. Take it or leave it." He cried but he took it.

I don't like new car dealers. Playing on hockey and baseball teams trying to raise money, they were always the worst: We've already spent our maximum on charitable events this year.... Really.... What were they, out of curiosity? No answer... And then I was doing the same with my mom for some board that she's on, and we get the same answer.

I'd really like to read your post, but I can't - my brain exploded. Capitals and punctuation go a long way towards making things understandable.

I cringe at the thought of buying a new car ever again.

I do like to walk around with the parts I just bought at the parts counter and look at the new cars. They never seem happy when trying to help me buy a car. Nope, just got a few parts to keep the old one running..................

carguy123 wrote: I'd really like to read your post, but I can't - my brain exploded. Capitals and punctuation go a long way towards making things understandable.

whywouldpuncuationbeimportant

I have bought one new car, and it was with my parents' money. They bought me a car as a college graduation gift, so I marched in, negotiated $200 over invoice and wrote a check. I'm sure they got a pretty holdback from GM, but I got a 96 Impala SS for cheaper than anyone I know.

I will never buy a new vehicle again.

I know of only one dealership that I would even consider going to. Williamson Caddy in Miami. I've known them for years, as my ex is Mr. Williamson's secretary. They don't play the games. But they are not one of the Big Time Dealers either. Probably because of that.

I don't know how legal it is, but some of the dealers here in Memphis pull that "oops, your financing is NOT approved, after all" crapola. Several Toyota dealers in this area have pulled that stunt, when they thought they could get away with it/won't get caught...usually on women.

I would really like to "help the economy, and support American enterprise", but my encounters with salesmen at new car dealers have turned me off to the retail experience. I'm tired of salespeople who think I am desperate for wheels and will take any car and any deal they dangle before me. I haven't HAD to buy a car in over a decade, thanks to good preventative maintenance on my current car, but fear my luck may run out soon. I wish that all the top management of the Big 2.5 would go undercover and try to buy a new car.

Most dealership management types are slime. Car salesmen are either slime, idiots, or swimming upstream very hard to try to do business with integrity (or some combination of the three). I start with the assumption that they're all slime and work from there.

Several years ago, my little brother was getting ready to buy a car. I took him to a Ford dealership to teach him how not to get taken advantage of. I told the guy I was interested in an SVT Contour (which was just barely true--I wanted one, but wasn't really in the market for a car). The lot had a few, so we took a short test drive. We went back inside, and the sales dance commenced.

I made an offer ($100 under invoice) and they salesman gave me the "I can't even take that to my manager" dance. I told him to do it or I walked. He took it to the manager and came back with $100 off sticker and a story about how the manager was insulted. I told the guy that number was BS, his manager knew it, he knew it, and I knew it. The salesman wanted a counter, and I told him I'd made a real offer, I wasn't an idiot, and if he thought I was going to bite on anything close to the number he brought back he was an idiot.

I finally bullied him into going back to his manager (with my original offer). While he was gone, my brother was telling me I'd been too hard on him and he was just trying to do his job. I told him the guy was either a snake, thought I was an idiot, or both, but that in any case I wasn't going to start playing nice until they started being serious.

The salesman came back with $100 over invoice, but only if we'd do the deal right then. I told him I'd think about it and call him later that day. My brother was amazed how quickly the price dropped a couple of thousand once they figured out I knew what the car was worth and was willing to walk away.

My brother did end up buying a car from that dealer a month or so later. He got a pretty good deal. I consider my lesson to have been worthwhile.

Always, always, ALWAYS have a financing deal arranged before you shop for a new car!

I was approved by my credit union for 5.99% before I walked into the car store.

The dealer F&I guy, having no knowledge of this, told me that because I was such a highly qualified borrower (yes) that he managed to get me a special rate of 6.75%.

No drama necessary, I simply told him he'd have to beat the credit union by a quarter percentage point or give me the purchase order and I'd be back in an hour with a credit union check for the car.

He sighed, and said 'do we have a deal at 5.75%?" and I said okay.

I've had my best luck dealing over the net. I send an email with my offer or solicting offers. The real jackholes won't even respond. Some will write back with some bull like "the last car of this model left in the state!" and an exorbitant price. The good guys write back with a no haggle "this is the best we can do" offer.

The good guys are the ones I deal with. Typically I'll then research their offer. If it's fair I'll bite.

That's how I got my Mazdaspeed3 for hundreds below sticker.

carguy123 wrote: I'd really like to read your post, but I can't - my brain exploded. Capitals and punctuation go a long way towards making things understandable.

Plenty of caps and punctuation in there already, though I wont claim its all correct. The paragraph spacing was the problem, it looked fine in the preview, but hopefully its fixed now.

On topic: funny thing about dealers, I've found its not the sales crew who I end up having problems with, its the finance people.

pete240z wrote: I cringe at the thought of buying a new car ever again. I do like to walk around with the parts I just bought at the parts counter and look at the new cars. They never seem happy when trying to help me buy a car. Nope, just got a few parts to keep the old one running..................

that is evil, i love it...

The only dealer I like is Simmons-Rockwell. Part of me wishes I just had a cosigner for that 05 focus, then both me and my mother would have driven out with "new-to-us" fords.

OTOH, im looking forward to, hopefully, a new SV650 in the spring.

Rules For Buying A New Car

1. Everything, yes EVERYTHING, in a new car dealership is a potential profit center. This includes the water cooler.

2. Be prepared to walk away at any time, and make sure your salesman knows it. I find that when they "need to see the manager" giving them a set time limit works. I have been chased into a parking lot by a salesman because "I gave you X minutes and it is now X minutes plus two. Stop wasting my time." They get real amenable about that point.

3. Read the fine print.

4. Bring your own financing. It is a huge source of profit for the dealer. And when you meet with the F & I guy start the conversation with "The answer to every question you are going to ask is 'No" so can we get this done with?" I actually had one guy stop and figure out a way to get "no" to be an affirmative. Kudos to him, but the deal still sucked.

5. I have met exactly one moral and decent car salesman. Unfortunately he has gone to The Great Dealership In The Sky, so you can safely assume your salesman is A: illiterate; B: a thief; and C: some Evil combination of the two.

6. Just like an attorney in court, never ask a question that you do not know the answer to in advance.

"..the only dealer I like is Simmons-Rockwell".

My folks live in Northeastern Pa. which is "prime S-R sales territory, yet I don't usually see that many cars with their stickers on them when I visit...I guess theiir customers are nearly all NY state residents. I read their ads in the folk's paper, and their inventory is fantastic, varied and prices look decent. My little/older sister shopped them for a car, but didn't buy. Her "problem"? No one would haggle with her. She bought a Legacy Outback at a smallish, local, independent dealer with the provision in the sale that she could trade her '04 model for a similar '05...if/when one became available.

I agree on the advise, have your financing ready BEFORE you start shopping. Your bank or credit union should want your business and if they don't want your loan business, maybe you need your regular business to go elsewhere.

And yeah, I had a sales manager offer me a ton of money as a trade in allowance once, on a VERY overpriced Isuzu pickup in the late '80s. (I came THIS close to going diesel) Apparently, he thought I'd bite on his giving me 2K more than my trade was worth, and not notice he had "padded" the price of his Isuzu by 4K. When I walk out to my car he chased me all the way out shouting that ridiculous line "...tell me, what can I do to put you in a car today?"

BTW, a few years ago, I actually made a salesman cry when I wouldn't buy a new Ranger. I had made it VERY clear that I was only on the lot to look at the truck, and besides, when I didn't take it out for a test drive he should have realized it wasn't gonna happen...at least not that afternoon.

I like to ride over to do my car shopping on a motorcycle, that way they don't know what to do about a trade-in. It's also easier to park it right by the door. You'ld be amazed what some slaesmen say when you reach for your helmet.

the last 4 cars my family bought from a dealer were all from the same dealer.
we were reasonably well taken care of. BUT we knew someone within the dealer so the deals were actually pretty decent.

I might be one of those sick people who actually enjoys buying new cars. I even help friends go and buy new cars. I have found it helpful to request quotes through every dealerships I can find "internet sales" department. They "say" that the internet guys can give special deals. After getting all this info, and knowing where the exact cars are in relation to me, I go in and have fun. I set the price (which is usually $1000+ lower than my lowest price I have really gotten) and go from there. When the salesman asks to see the quote I am refering to, I ask him for a copy of his quote so I can show other dealers. If he wants to go talk to the sales manager, I tell his to bring the manager back to me, or I will go with him, so we can all be involved. Always be willing to walk out of the door.

"Always be willing to walk out the door."

Probably THE most important thing to remember. IF, for whatever reason, you are not able to just walk away....the person who monitors your health care needs to steer you clear of car dealerships, sharp edges, and knives/scissors.

wreckerboy wrote: Rules For Buying A New Car 1. Everything, yes EVERYTHING, in a new car dealership is a potential profit center. This includes the water cooler. 2. Be prepared to walk away at any time, and make sure your salesman knows it. I find that when they "need to see the manager" giving them a set time limit works. I have been chased into a parking lot by a salesman because "I gave you X minutes and it is now X minutes plus two. Stop wasting my time." They get real amenable about that point. 3. Read the fine print. 4. Bring your own financing. It is a huge source of profit for the dealer. And when you meet with the F & I guy start the conversation with "The answer to every question you are going to ask is 'No" so can we get this done with?" I actually had one guy stop and figure out a way to get "no" to be an affirmative. Kudos to him, but the deal still sucked. 5. I have met exactly one moral and decent car salesman. Unfortunately he has gone to The Great Dealership In The Sky, so you can safely assume your salesman is A: illiterate; B: a thief; and C: some Evil combination of the two. 6. Just like an attorney in court, never ask a question that you do not know the answer to in advance.

I'd also add bring your own calculator. Having my own has saved me some bucks in the past.

David S. Wallens wrote: I'd also add bring your own calculator. Having my own has saved me some bucks in the past.

Gosh, I had forgotten all about that. When I bought my first new car, a 1984 GTI, the paperwork got more and more scribbled on and hard to read. I'm not the greatest math student in the world, but the numbers didn't look right. I made the sales drone total 'em up again, and whodathunkit but the numbers did not add up by nearly a grand (which was a lot on a car that cost 10.5).

Remember, the sales guys are taught to be thieves. Don't be a mark. When in doubt, walk.

Believe it or not, I once had a dealership call me with, "We're sorry, the financing fell through, you'll have to come back..." and when I came back the terms were exactly the same but with a different bank. Perhaps that bank gave them more commission.

When I bought my P5 I already had my financing in order. They wanted $14,9 for the car. I offered $12,5, mostly because that's what my credit line was for. After lots of "negotiation" it came down to me telling them "Look, I've got a check for $12,500. That's it. If I can't have that car for this price I'm leaving." They eventually sold it to me for $13k and gave me $500 for my beater buick.

I think I got a good deal. 03 P5 with 8,800 miles, bought in 04. Car was in showroom condition. I still like it, although it has LOTS of rock chips now and about 75k miles.