Indy 500

I refuse to watch any race where the cars drive in circles. It bores me.

It would be even better if they had to actually lift and/or brake for the turns. Take away downforce and grip. Let them get to 250 mph on the straights (just make sure they don't take flight if there is contact), but turns need to be taken at 180 mph. That would make an interesting race and having braking duels on into the turns would be fun to watch.

(EDIT: Exaggerating speeds to get point across)

Giant Purple Snorklewacker wrote:

alfadriver wrote: How abandoning the core track that makes the whole series is a good thing escapes me.

Speaking of reading comprehension - I didn't say abandon the track. I said use the infield road course and add a chicane. Exactly like they do at the Daytona 24 (and for almost every other race held at Daytona except for NASCAR's 500). Cars having to do something besides draft each other for 500 miles is more interesting to watch IMO. Obviously you do not feel the same.

Uh, if they don't run all 4 corners of the track, how is that keeping the track? Noting that if one runs the infield track, there's no way to actually run turns 2, 3, and 4- that takes the oval totally out of the picture.

Taken a different way, the course is a squared off oval. If you make it a track that you have to turn right, how is that not abandoning the original course?

Back to reading comprehension, I, too, did not mention abandonment, up until the previous sentance. Again, I'm asking how more road courseses and less ovals make things any better. Taking note the popularity of the 500 over the race that is no longer run at the Glen.

CGLockRacer wrote: It would be even better if they had to actually lift and/or brake for the turns. Take away downforce and grip. Let them get to 250 mph on the straights (just make sure they don't take flight if there is contact), but turns need to be taken at 180 mph. That would make an interesting race and having braking duels on into the turns would be fun to watch. (EDIT: Exaggerating speeds to get point across)

One thing that I didn't like about the race was how long it took drivers to get back to speed- if you were balked, then it would take 2 laps to recover. Which, I think, was one reason Sato made the move when he did- Dario entered the corner slower than expected, and if Takuma backed out, he would have probably been passed by Dixon and Kanaan. So there's an issue there...

Whew!

Just returned from the race. A few observations:

--Chevy got screwed by the last minute allowance to the Honda teams.

-- Sato is a madman, it seemed everytime I looked he was passing someone....until that last lap. He really should have waited until the backstrech, or after turn 4 to make the pass.

--Kannan was clearly the crowd favorite.

-- While Indycar racing may not be strong, the Indy 500 is just fine. Adding the road course, or a bus-stop is ridiculous. Indycar has road races on the schedule- that's not what Indy is about. These cars are racing at 215-220mph for the entire race. The raw speed and spectacle make Indy what it is. It is hard to appreciate the courage and skill of these folks on T.V. Television doesn't convey how close and fast they are going.

-- I need to bring a larger generator for the RV next year. (no A/C) The weekend was furnace-like. I can only imagine how hot it was in the pits / car.

-- The new DW cars look and sound much better in person than on TV.

-- This is still an amazing event that every car nut should see at least once. IMS on raceday is hallowed ground. It is hard to explain unless you've seen it, and heard it.

-- This was my 22nd year in a row, and I'm going for the rest of my life.

alfadriver wrote: Again, I'm asking how more road courseses and less ovals make things any better.

It makes it interesting to me. I think you might be over-stating the current popularity of the 500. More americans watched golf. I might be way off - but it really can't get less generic or boring than it currently is.

I sit in a room full of race fans to watch the Petit & The 24... we watch ALL of it. Not one of the 20 or so people bother with IndyCar. The reason for that isn't totally clear to me but the snoozefest ovals certainly play a role. I tune in for the start, then rip it up with the DVR a couple hours later because it is just awful otherwise. I paid to see IndyCar at the Glen and it was really fantastic to watch them working every corner. It was great racing at all times. I want more of that.

Wow, some of you guys are harsh. If you don't like it, don't watch...easy. I can assure that running an oval is much harder than a road course. Setting up a car for an oval is an art form. While you change a car for a road course in terms of front and rear, setting it up for an oval requires tuning each corner individually, and that doesn't include aero. And of course it takes a lot bigger appendages too. While I still prefer driving on a road course, I have a huge respect for ovals and those that can do well on them.

OK, back to the race. I thought it was pretty good. I was hoping for TK to pull it out, but I'm not disappointed. While I would like the cars to be nearer a thousand HP, I thought they raced really well. Is it perfect, no, but what is? I think ALMS has a long way to go too by comparison, and no series is ever perfect. You do the best with what you have.

And I have no issues with Ashley. What would you want your wife to say?

This year is a great year to be a racing fan!

I really enjoyed the race. Watched it with my in-laws, who aren't car people at all. Even my wife enjoyed it. I was pleased that it wasn't a wreck fest and mostly a clean race.

I've been to the Indy 500 twelve times in my life, so when I watch I can imagine every sensation. My Grandparents live a few blocks away from the track, so I used to go there to listen to the cars qualify with my Dad. I love the Indy, I love the track, and I love that series.

Final results are up, and major question- why didn't Rahal nor Hinchcliffe get penalties for running over air powered stuff?

Hinchcliffe ran over his RF tire changer air hose, and Rahal ran over the lug gun of the team in front of him- and it was inside their box.

Running over air powered things used to be a major, major penalty.

Oh, as for this race- second year in a row that I was on the edge of my seat for the last lap. I love F1, and WILL go to Monaco someday, but I was never that excited about that race.

Joe Gearin wrote: -- This is still an amazing event that every car nut should see at least once. IMS on raceday is hallowed ground. It is hard to explain unless you've seen it, and heard it.

This times 18. My first year of attendance was 1977 and my last year was 2002. I missed a few but I did attend 18 years worth. There is something cool when you go to the 500.

In reply to Giant Purple Snorklewacker:

I apprecite that you are basing your popularity ideas on your friends, but couple of things....

First and foremost is the popularity of NASCAR. That tells me that circle track racing has a pretty strong backing in the US, much greater than road courses.

Second, CART was a more road/street course open wheel racing than IRL was, but over time, it went away due to lack of popularity.

Third- much of the reason teams left CART to the IRL was the 500, how popular it was to viewers/advertisers.

Fourth- I suspect that the races at the Glenn never really topped 100k viewers, while at the 500, there are close to 500k (the year I was there, it was closer to 600k)

Fifth- the race that you illustrate as a great example of open wheel racing isn't put on anymore- generlly events are dropped due to lack of popularity (which is what drives advertisers).

All in all, based on that, the 500 is a very popular race, especially compared to road racing in the US. Not to say that IndyCar does not have it's problems, but IMHO, doing more road racing isn't going to fix them.

Love it or hate it

It is The Indianapolis 500.

It's a tradition that has been going on for over a hundred years,minus a few war years.

Okay..on my soapbox..or at least switching on GOML mode.

IMO, CART was a unique blend of racing, the product of American (Indy) tradition, and the end of the original Can-Am series. Recall that the "road racing guys" never could have founded CART without the support of a lot of USAC teams (IIRC, upset that the 500 was the only race USAC would actively support). Although the creation of the series was a train wreck, the result was spectacular.

Those wonderfully brutish cars, now on ovals, roads, and street circuits. And the ovals weren't all cookie-cutter Superspeedways, but included real courses with real character. Banking at Indy's only about 18 degrees, right? Milwaukee's only a mile long. Haven't been there in person, but I could swear that Phoenix had elevation changes. No other open-wheel championship on Earth required people to do that kind of stuff.

From my (non-scientific ) study at the time, it also seemed like CART was fixing the whole promotional thing. People (casual fans) were asking me, "..so the Indianapolis cars run all year long, like NASCAR?" Throw in the different tracks, and they were getting hooked. CART had its problems, but the "show" wasn't one of them.

I think the decline in Indycar racing happened for two reasons. First, the removal from the 500 from the schedule. Second, the replacement of the fast cars with slower ones. The first divorced the cars from their rightful history & tradition, and the second cheapened that history & tradition in the minds of many people. Indy used to be the only USAC (or oval) race I watched all year, and that was just because they were so stinking fast. When CART decided to run those monsters on "my kind of racetrack", I got hooked. I still recall the first time I watched the Milwaukee Mile race (late 1980s). I was stunned that oval racing could be like that.

As much as I loved CART, I had to admit that it survived a lot longer without Indy than I thought it would, and IMO the removal of Indy (and other ovals who wanted to host IRL) from the schedule was the only reason it died. I wasn't surprised at all to see the reduced affection for Indy after the slower cars were mandated, though.

I suppose all I'm saying is that all this road vs. oval stuff is what damn near killed the series. Better marketing people would have pushed the fact that the series was unique, that the "foreigners" were only here because they couldn't find a worthy challenge to their talent anywhere else, and that the cars were the end result of eighty years of American innovation.

Sorry to be so long-winded, but I really do think Indycars were on the verge of greatness before the split, without it, I think it'd be bigger than NASCAR today. Damn shame, seems like the new folks at Indycar "get it", but the economy isn't good enough to unleash the hounds. Still baffles me that they were faster 20yrs ago than they are now.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0orHQo57S9Q
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dGqjGyUy4FE

As for Sato's "impatience"...

If he had waited to make his pass, and someone wrecked, bringing out the caution, what should he have done then? Made the pass earlier? Lot of armchair driving going on.

I honestly don't think that adding more road courses is going to help Indycar. The 500 is a great race. It's a heritage race, it's over 100 years old, and its probably at this point the second most popular and widely known race.

What they need is exposure and a lot of it. They don't have that. All of their races need to be broadcast on major networks. CBS, NBC, ABC, Speed, ESPN, or ESPN2. They need more exposure on commercials, magazine ads, etc. The manafactures also need to step up. There needs to be more of them and they need pump the hell out of it. Right now there are only 3 Manafactures, there needs to be more.

Tracks aren't the problem, PR and advertising is. That's the problem with most motorsports here in the US that aren't NASCAR.

This sounds like the 86 twins again. A series has been created with safe cars (now) which runs roadcourses, street racing and ovals, has tight racing, lots of passes, three engine manufacturers, and lots of fans, and some of you are bitching? You;re kidding me. Sounds like a great recipe. Every race series has their problems. I love drag racing, but can't watch the bikes on NHRA anymore because of the stupid E36 M3 Graham is pulling off with weight breaks for HD - Indycar seems like a dream in comparison. I'll watch more this year, seems like good action.

In otehr news - how embarrassing must it be for Lotus right about now? Too slow while Chevy and Honda mix it up just about even? And in the 500 no less - someone's losing their job - or deserves to.

I didn't read the whole thread, but I have to say--the new bodywork looks fantastic. Nicest looking open-wheelers in a LONG time, IMHO.

I missed the finish

Wally wrote: I'm just watching it now and I can't believe how mellow AJ has become. The old AJ would have beaten Mike Conway to death with a steering wheel.

I'm thinking its because AJ knows that wreck was AJ's fault.

Otto Maddox wrote: I refuse to watch any race where the cars drive in circles. It bores me.

I refuse to watch any race where the winner is determined in qualifying. F1 bores me.

How's that for answering closed minded stupidity with the same?

Chris_V wrote:

Otto Maddox wrote: I refuse to watch any race where the cars drive in circles. It bores me.

I refuse to watch any race where the winner is determined in qualifying. F1 bores me. How's that for answering closed minded stupidity with the same?

I've tried watching it. It bores me. Should I force myself to use my limited free time watching something I don't enjoy to fit your definition of being open minded? Lighten up, Francis.

I don't think they should change the Indy 500 just because it bores me. It is an institution.

Chris_V wrote:

Otto Maddox wrote: I refuse to watch any race where the cars drive in circles. It bores me.

I refuse to watch any race where the winner is determined in qualifying. F1 bores me. How's that for answering closed minded stupidity with the same?

My thoughts exactly.

Anti-stance wrote:

Chris_V wrote:

Otto Maddox wrote: I refuse to watch any race where the cars drive in circles. It bores me.

I refuse to watch any race where the winner is determined in qualifying. F1 bores me. How's that for answering closed minded stupidity with the same?

My thoughts exactly.

I refuse to be interested in oval racing regardless of how many circular arguments you make. Maybe if you tried to go the opposite way once (even just slightly - like exiting the pits only out in the field of competition somewhere) in a while you might convinve me.

I understand its not for everybody. Me personally, I am not a big fan of open wheeled cars more than anything but I still like watching the Indy 500 for the history. Indy cars on ovals is more boring to me than seeing a multi-passing assisted race like F1. I'd rather watch any fendered cars racing on just about any racetrack than either of those. Different strokes

Racing is racing, whether it is on an oval, road course, straight line etc. Some of the best action can be found on the short dirt ovals. I don't care for drag racing because it is all over in seconds.

iceracer wrote: Racing is racing, whether it is on an oval, road course, straight line etc. Some of the best action can be found on the short dirt ovals. I don't care for drag racing because it is all over in seconds.

I'm right there with ya, iceracer.

Racing is racing and I enjoy all of it, some types more than others. While I prefer road-racing, I like watching competition on ovals - choosing IndyCar over Nascar any day but I find myself watching the taxicabs at least for a little while. Drag racing is OK when it's on the tube because the runs are shown, not the interminable delays between them. That and the best runs are much shorter than a teenager's first-time experience.

Yeah, I watched Monaco and loved it. It may be the one track where the winner is usually determined by who wins the pole, but this year's competition is unprecedented - six different winners from five different constructors is beyond imagination. And I even woke-up early enough to watche the GP2 coverage.

Indy was great; the cars and drivers were pretty well matched and I couldn't find any reason to look for alternative activities. Can't say the same for the 600, though.

Icing on the cake was having WSBK and AMA from Miller televised on Monday. And there was the dealyed-broadcast of the Continental race on Saturday.

This was a great weekend for racing that happened to feature some really great racing.