Nuisance lawsuits suck.

Reply to all of the above: 

As-Is in this (& most) States means no warrantee implied.  Words are worth the paper they're not written on.   The buyer looked at it, had 4 days to mull it over, came back with cash and drove home.  THREE MONTHS LATER there's an issue?  I don't speak legal, but I've seen Judge Judy and the red head Judge, they would giggle in your direction.

Here's the issue (OK one issue) Google the seller's name and the fact he was sued pops up.  Wonderful when applying for a loan or a job.  

In reply to wae :

well exactly, it's literally all hearsay.  It's all private sales, it's not like there is some mechanics cree in which he has to give sound advice 24/7.  The entire premise of this lawsuit is just comical.

Oops, double tap.

In reply to 914Driver :

I'm not going to disagree with you. There is a lot not being said that needs explanation. Just because it says "as is" doesn't mean the same thing to everyone. What would you say to let's say a wiped lifter and cam lobe in the car you just bought and drove 500 miles. Mechanic you took it to, says oil hasn't been changed in "ages". You start going down the path of 5 "y's".... of course you probably will have to have some legal correspondence to know that answer. Stuff like this is why every used car gets an oil change in my previous dealership life even if it was 20 miles ago.
Im wondering what the true problem with the vehicle especially after 90 days. Broke and no parts available? Not worth fixing? Doubling dipping with an insurance loss?

Yes, I have my tinfoil hat on and I'm home not at work. 

Every State varies but these are direct quotes from the Florida Attorney Generals Website.

Warranties 
Buying a car "as is" disclaims all warranties. You should not expect any legal protection if the car is a "lemon." In Florida, there is no Used Car Lemon Law.

Private Sales 
You may save money by buying a used car from a private individual, such as through the classified section of your local newspaper. However, you should be aware that private sellers do not have to provide you with a Buyer's Guide, and do not provide implied warranties under state law. Therefore, it may be even more important to obtain warranty promises in writing and to obtain an independent inspection prior to purchase.

In reply to Ranger50 :

Well, actually, "as-is" is a term of art, as they say, and according to the law that means that if you buy it, you have zero legal recourse no matter what faults or defects may exist.  The only exception would be if you were told some provable, objective fact by the seller that was false.

In reply to Ranger50 :

Well it is certainly - and depressingly - true that meritless suits can be brought.  Even though they may be flawed, it takes time and money to defend against them which causes pain and aggravation for the seller in this case.  As was already mentioned, it's probably a tactic to get the seller to just unwind the deal by making it such a pain in the ass that will cost a bunch of money in legal fees that just taking the car back and refunding the money seems like a cheap and easy way to get out of the whole ordeal.  Which really sucks for the seller.

Read up on the McDonald's coffee suit a bit, though.  A 180 degree liquid is capable of causing third degree burns in less time than it would take you to be able to grab a napkin and wipe the spill, compared to the 160 degrees that other places used.  There's getting burned by spilling hot coffee and then there's having burns on 16% of your body and being hospitalized for a week.  And instead of demanding millions, she asked for a few thousand to cover her medical expenses and for McDonalds to lower the temperature of their coffee.  They flat-out refused to turn down the coffee temps and offered her $800.  There were also literally hundreds of other complaints over the years that the coffee was so hot it was causing burns and McDonald's still refused to lower the temperature.  There are a lot of bogus suits out there where people are out looking for a payday, but that one doesn't smell like one of those.

Ref the McDonald's hot coffee. 

Years ago I read an article saying that yes, the coffee was way too hot at 180F. 

And  claiming the coffee spilled when the lady's grandson dumped the clutch on his Miata pulling out of the McDonald's driveway giving Grandma 3rd Degree burns.

Nuisance lawsuits definitely suck. I am currently a named party to a foreclosure on a house I sold 20 years ago and has been sold multiple times since then. My lawyer is confident that when it eventually goes to a foreclosure judge I (and the other past owners) will be cleared but I still retained counsel just to make sure the other party knew I didn't have much patience for this nonsense.  There are some strange circumstances on this one but Mrs Wake74 did not like getting served a foreclosure notice on my behalf (twice now on this matter). 

In reply to Ranger50 :

None of what he said matters if there is a bill of sale saying as/is. Zero. 

In reply to wae :

Actually mcds policy was no more than 140f prior to the accident. My source is a buddy of mine who worked the breakfast shift during this debacle. He rolled his eyes when I asked him about it.  Still can burn but not to the degree claimed imo. Malfunctiong machine? Maybe but never heard about it. Suit was also brought to light in the cash cow district which loves to give others money away for frivolous suits. No way I'm defending that E36 M3hole but again their inaction did not help them.

wake74 said:

Nuisance lawsuits definitely suck. I am currently a named party to a foreclosure on a house I sold 20 years ago and has been sold multiple times since then. My lawyer is confident that when it eventually goes to a foreclosure judge I (and the other past owners) will be cleared but I still retained counsel just to make sure the other party knew I didn't have much patience for this nonsense.  There are some strange circumstances on this one but Mrs Wake74 did not like getting served a foreclosure notice on my behalf (twice now on this matter). 

I'm in the title insurance space. Let me know if I can help in any way.

Ranger50 said:

In reply to wae :

Actually mcds policy was no more than 140f prior to the accident. My source is a buddy of mine who worked the breakfast shift during this debacle. He rolled his eyes when I asked him about it.  Still can burn but not to the degree claimed imo. Malfunctiong machine? Maybe but never heard about it. Suit was also brought to light in the cash cow district which loves to give others money away for frivolous suits. No way I'm defending that E36 M3hole but again their inaction did not help them.

You should read the case notes on that; I had to in a management class a few years ago and it was 180f and they actually tested other McDonalds restaurants and found all of them above the 140f max that the machine said it was. Part of the reason they paid it was because there were circular messages (this is before email) stating that customer complaints about the taste of the coffee went down to nothing if it was so hot they couldn't taste it (that's my paraphrase of the statement). What's most interesting is that the lady asked for $20k to cover her medical bills and her daughters loss of work while she helped her recuperate (actual skin grafts where her pants melted into her) and they offered her $500 or something. Her lawyer then went nuclear and that's why it's become the  talking point frivolous lawsuit; the truth is both sides were negligent - McDonalds knew their coffee was stupid hot and the lady used her legs to hold the cup while opening the pull tab instead of her cup holder.  
 

As for the OP, as is where is works in almost all states. Is it Minnesota that has a responsibility clause on used cars?

chandler said: McDonalds knew their coffee was stupid hot and the lady used her legs to hold the cup while opening the pull tab instead of her cup holder.  

I read this, and thought "Wait, cars had cupholders back then?"

This happened in 1992. I guess some cars might have had cupholders then, but not the ones I was driving.

Brett_Murphy (Agent of Chaos) said:

chandler said: McDonalds knew their coffee was stupid hot and the lady used her legs to hold the cup while opening the pull tab instead of her cup holder.  

I read this, and thought "Wait, cars had cupholders back then?"

This happened in 1992. I guess some cars might have had cupholders then, but not the ones I was driving.

 

I thought the same thing. That being said, it was an 89 Probe, no cup holders. 
Remember when every 3rd car was a probe or geo storm?

Steve_Jones said:

Brett_Murphy (Agent of Chaos) said:

chandler said: McDonalds knew their coffee was stupid hot and the lady used her legs to hold the cup while opening the pull tab instead of her cup holder.  

I read this, and thought "Wait, cars had cupholders back then?"

This happened in 1992. I guess some cars might have had cupholders then, but not the ones I was driving.

 

I thought the same thing. That being said, it was an 89 Probe, no cup holders. 
Remember when every 3rd car was a probe or geo storm?

You guys, I guess I should have read up on it myself instead of going by memory but the point is still the same. 

I doubt the buyer would agree to just undo the deal.  It is way too fishy that the buyer just happened to have an attorney present and the discussion occurred where a Ring would record it.  I suspect they might have directed the conversation to their benefit.  This sounds like a scam to get quite a bit of money, not just $500 each.  I hope it works out to your benefit.  To my simple mind, "as is" on the BOS makes it crystal clear.  

ANother reason I am reluctant to sell a car these days. 

Well it's winding down.  Full Disclosure:

My son bought a car from someone here, put time and money into it, drove it, loved it; until a friend offered his mother's Audi Allroad.  $1500 for the car, $6500 for a totally rebuilt engine with quality parts (not Chinese copies) so the Saab was sold.

A month later, the buyer calls, wants his money back.  No.  Says right on the Bill of Sale As-Is.

3 months later Ian gets a letter, I want my money back.   Ian's lawyer said to tear it into tiny pieces and toss it in the air, don't worry about it.

4 months after that, he gets the Summons, being sued for $15-$20,000.

The buyer has a friend with him for the test drive, turns out the friend is an Associate with a law firm as he graduated from a not so prestigious college the year before.  Friend goaded the buyer into the suit.   Ian offered $2,000 and a Release against further action.

This morning he got a call from the law firm; from the guy whose name is on the letterhead.  The friend cannot litigate as an Associate.  "Here's the deal ...... ".

Guy wants $5,000 to go way. If we go to trial it will be at least $5000 + court costs and lawyer fees.

 Ian offered $3000.  Guy counters with $4000.  Ian says OK, but - - for $4000, I get the car back, and your client has it delivered it to me in running condition AND a Release of further action.  I just want this to end and I don't want to see your client.  The BoS said AS-IS. 

Lawyer says, no, the paperwork for Ct DMV has no spot for As-Is.  Ian told the lawyer he has paperwork as does the client,  signed by him and the client that says As-Is. 

"I don't mind going to court.  My attorney is ______________ (an acquaintance who represents some well know people and carries weight in NYC & CT).  I am advised that this is a nuisance lawsuit and your client will be laughed out of court with the evidence we have. Trust me, my legal fees will be much higher than what you may be charging your client.  By the way, an associate of your firm was present in the sale and advised your client to pursue this action knowing it was an As-Is sale.  That is not in keeping with the ethical code and law of the profession."

I will take your offer to my client and get back to you by the end of the week.

So, the knucklehead gets his money back and there's a car for sale at around $500 coming soon.  And there may be an Associate in the E36 M3 with his boss....

Dan

The car.

So the guy had this saab for a month and what? buyers remorse over some shotty legal advice? It's really weird.  But I'll take that SAAB if it's gonna be for sale.

I'd still report the associate to the Bar as unethical

914Driver said:

Well it's winding down.  Full Disclosure:

 

My son bought a car from someone here, put time and money into it, drove it, loved it; until a friend offered his mother's Audi Allroad.  $1500 for the car, $6500 for a totally rebuilt engine with quality parts (not Chinese copies) so the Saab was sold.

A month later, the buyer calls, wants his money back.  No.  Says right on the Bill of Sale As-Is.

3 months later Ian gets a letter, I want my money back.   Ian's lawyer said to tear it into tiny pieces and toss it in the air, don't worry about it.

4 months after that, he gets the Summons, being sued for $15-$20,000.

 

The buyer has a friend with him for the test drive, turns out the friend is an Associate with a law firm as he graduated from a not so prestigious college the year before.  Friend goaded the buyer into the suit.   Ian offered $2,000 and a Release against further action.

This morning he got a call from the law firm; from the guy whose name is on the letterhead.  The friend cannot litigate as an Associate.  "Here's the deal ...... ".

Guy wants $5,000 to go way. If we go to trial it will be at least $5000 + court costs and lawyer fees.

 Ian offered $3000.  Guy counters with $4000.  Ian says OK, but - - for $4000, I get the car back, and your client has it delivered it to me in running condition AND a Release of further action.  I just want this to end and I don't want to see your client.  The BoS said AS-IS. 

Lawyer says, no, the paperwork for Ct DMV has no spot for As-Is.  Ian told the lawyer he has paperwork as does the client,  signed by him and the client that says As-Is. 

"I don't mind going to court.  My attorney is ______________ (an acquaintance who represents some well know people and carries weight in NYC & CT).  I am advised that this is a nuisance lawsuit and your client will be laughed out of court with the evidence we have. Trust me, my legal fees will be much higher than what you may be charging your client.  By the way, an associate of your firm was present in the sale and advised your client to pursue this action knowing it was an As-Is sale.  That is not in keeping with the ethical code and law of the profession."

I will take your offer to my client and get back to you by the end of the week.

So, the knucklehead gets his money back and there's a car for sale at around $500 coming soon.  And there may be an Associate in the E36 M3 with his boss....

Dan

 

 

OK I got a little confused by the way this is worded.  I am guessing Ian is your son.

Why offer them anything at all?  If it truly was sold "As-Is" and there is paperwork to back it up, and the state it was sold in is an "as-is" state, why does your son need a lawyer?  Who cares if the lawyer is connected or not?  Maybe this guy is just blowing smoke considering the paperwork wasn't from so-and-so...

Why would it be $5k of court cost and lawyer fees to show up in a suit "here is my paperwork, CT is an as-is state, no further discussion"

Otherwise find your own ambulance chaser and counter-sue them for lost time and whatnot...Two can frivol...

In reply to 914Driver :

That's quite a Saab story...

In reply to 93gsxturbo :

Ian is my son.  Any lawyer wants $5k to stand up for you or even write a letter dismissing the silliness with evidence.  Me, myself and maybe you would go to court with the paperwork, no lawyer and hope for the best.  None of this is my call.  All I can do is relay the story, try not to be confusing and hope some of this information helps some other poor sap selling a car.

Dan