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ProDarwin said:SVreX (Forum Supporter) said:I'd also like to see the stats normalized for age, risk category, and population density.
If they were, I am confident most of us would find much less to be fearful of.
I think lots of people don't fear it. What they fear is potentially transmitting it to someone that is high risk.
Yep. That's still fear.
Where's the line between fear and good practices to avoid spreading disease?
Are these fear or good practice:
-Coughing/sneezing into your elbow?
- washing you hands after using the restroom?
-Staying home if you feel ill (BC or AC)?
-Washing hands after handling raw meat, chicken, pork, fish?
-sneeze guards at salad bars?
- Dentist/doctors wearing masks during procedures where infections could be transmitted?
-Staying away from "at risk" individuals when sick, whether it's just the flu or something else (BC or AC)?
-Safe Serv procedures and inspections at restaurants?
They are reversing some of the opening in Texas. Bars closed at noon today. River tubing closed. Elective surgeries put on hold. It will be interesting to see how this unfolds.
Probably related to this:
100 percent of regular ICU beds in Texas Medical Center occupied, but hospitals have space for surge
As noted in the title (and likely not noted in other "news" about it) is that they can easily adjust for more capacity, the concern is not the capacity at this point, it's the rather large recent rise in cases.
This is an interesting comment:
They said the majority of hospitalizations they are now seeing are coming from younger people, but most patients don't stay at the hospitals long and are less likely to die from COVID.
Florida just suspended on the premises consumption of alcohol at bars statewide. 8942 new positive cases as of 11:30 am today, previous record was 5508.
EDIT, the notice says suspended, not banned. Revised the wording of my post accordingly.
I've got myself convinced it's not stupid to do a fly-and-drive car purchase, from one low-case-count state to another, driving home through other low-infection-rate states. Masks and glasses, on an airline with spaced seating and, at the least, a really good website about their COVID management practices if not actual implementation of them.
And now Texas and Arizona are going full steam ahead filling the ICUs while still not shutting anything down.
Hopefully PA & CO can keep their act together for another week or I'm gonna be looking for a different car to buy :-/ At least the plane ticket is refundable. PA where I am just technically reopened today and we're endlessly debating what is OK to do. Wife and kid will resume in-person karate classes, in small distanced classes with masks on, as their only indoor activity for the forseeable future. I'm likely taking the flight mentioned above, but definitely not going to the regular gym anytime soon, nor wearing a mask any less often when out and about.
Would be nice to let the kid run around with random other kids at playgrounds again, how guilty should i feel about that?
I made a haircut appointment. Masks on each of us, one person in the shop at a time (single proprieter barber shop). That kind of thing seems like a reasonable 'new normal'.
Even without the events of 40 years ago I think man would still be a creature that fears the dark. He doesn't face that fear. He averts his eyes from it and acts as if he doesn't have any memories of his past. But 40 years is both a short time and yet a long time. Man's fear has withered. And even time itself tries to wither the desire to know the truth. Is it a crime to try and learn the truth. Is it a sin to search for those things which you fear. My purpose in this world is knowledge and the dissemination of it and it is I who is to restore the fruits of my labor to the entire world. Fear. It is something vital to us puny creatures. The instant man stops fearing is the instant the species reaches a dead end, only to sink to pitiable lows, only to sit and wait apathetically for extinction. Humans who lose the ability to think become creatures whose existence has no value. Wake up. Don't be afraid of knowledge. Think. You humans who are split into two worlds, unless you want the gulf between humans to expand into oblivion, you must think.
Schwarzwald
No Time said:Where's the line between fear and good practices to avoid spreading disease?
Are these fear or good practice:
-Coughing/sneezing into your elbow?
- washing you hands after using the restroom?
-Staying home if you feel ill (BC or AC)?
-Washing hands after handling raw meat, chicken, pork, fish?
-sneeze guards at salad bars?
- Dentist/doctors wearing masks during procedures where infections could be transmitted?
-Staying away from "at risk" individuals when sick, whether it's just the flu or something else (BC or AC)?
-Safe Serv procedures and inspections at restaurants?
Apparently it is wearing a mask.
aircooled said:It's that Abbot test (which is tested to be very accurate), so that is good...Hopefully the results will show amount, not just positive or negative.
Your report should include a numeric value and 1.4 is the threshold for a positive result.
Understanding Your Serum Antibody Results
Abbott Architect S&S Performance
Sensitivity "Likelihood of detecting the antibody when it is present" - 95% Confidence Interval = 95.8% to 100%
The lower bound is probably higher but the sample size was only 88 (caught every one of them thank you very much)
Specificity "Likelihood of not detecting the antibody when it is not present" - 95% Confidence Interval = 99% to 99.9%
"Abbott - berk yah, comin' to save the mother berken' world yah"
alfadriver (Forum Supporter) said:ProDarwin said:SVreX (Forum Supporter) said:I'd also like to see the stats normalized for age, risk category, and population density.
If they were, I am confident most of us would find much less to be fearful of.
I think lots of people don't fear it. What they fear is potentially transmitting it to someone that is high risk.
Yea, I don't think I'm in a bad situation. But I don't want to be the one that restarts the fire here in Michigan, which cost a lot of people their lives that could have been prevented.
That, and I also know people who are more sensitive to respitory issues, and I'm more scared for them than for me.
On the other hand, I'm also geting REALLY tired that being careful is somehow being afraid or hyper sensitive or over reacting or anything like that. I'm being careful, logically. I've read real science that shows that masks are more effective than social distancing, so doing both is a great path to eliminate the virus.
For sure, I'm going to continue to be careful. Thinking of all the people around me. And the long term economic impact the logner the virus hangs around.
I'm with you.
You can really take that train of thinking/logic down some really stupid paths in an attempt to be pedantic and hyperbolic.
"Oh, why do you have a fire extinguisher? Can't you just like, not set stuff on fire?"
"Why do you wear a seatbelt? Just don't crash."
I've already deactivated my Facebook and Twitter accounts over the ridiculous amount of stupid stuff I see in the news, comments on the news, and shared by people I used to consider to be rational, intelligent human beings. Instagram still seems to be fairly devoid of annoying political commentary.
Today we drove from Central Illinois to Columbus Ohio. I wear a mask everywhere. In Illinois it is noteworthy when you see someone without a mask in a store. When we got gas in Indiana, I wore my mask into the store and the clerk said "You don't have to wear those here.". I saw 1 other person with a mask. Ohio was slightly better, I'd guestimate 20% mask use.
A few parents from our town put on a "Prom" because the kids have suffered so much. 15 of the ~50 kids now have the virus.
SVreX (Forum Supporter) said:ProDarwin said:SVreX (Forum Supporter) said:I'd also like to see the stats normalized for age, risk category, and population density.
If they were, I am confident most of us would find much less to be fearful of.
I think lots of people don't fear it. What they fear is potentially transmitting it to someone that is high risk.
Yep. That's still fear.
Sorry man, that's actually called compassion.
nocones said:A few parents from our town put on a "Prom" because the kids have suffered so much. 15 of the ~50 kids now have the virus.
This type of thing has been happening frequently :(
^Title is a little misleading on that one, as some of those were asymptomatic or untested. However, 3 of those 52 were hospitalized and 2 of them died.
etc.
Apologies for the giant text. I cut and pasted those titles ad the board sees them as h1 headers. The 'remove formatting' button doesn't work and I can't figure out how to normalize them.
SVreX (Forum Supporter) said:ProDarwin said:SVreX (Forum Supporter) said:I'd also like to see the stats normalized for age, risk category, and population density.
If they were, I am confident most of us would find much less to be fearful of.
I think lots of people don't fear it. What they fear is potentially transmitting it to someone that is high risk.
Yep. That's still fear.
You have a very interesting definition of fear, Paul.
For sure, not one I agree on. Even on a professional leve, since my job directly impacts human health on a very low limit relative to 50 years ago in the same aspect. And more inteesting that you regularly post about building safety- structural, electrical, pumbing, etc- which suggests that much of the work you have done professionally is about protecting other's safety.
I canceled the trip up to see my family.
Call me scared, say I'm over-reacting, whatever. I don't want to take the risk of driving up the East Coast, stopping at places and possibly catching or infecting somebody.
I also heard that in Vermont, people are angrily confronting people with out of state license plates in grocery stores parking lots and other public places.
RedGT said:I've got myself convinced it's not stupid to do a fly-and-drive car purchase, from one low-case-count state to another, driving home through other low-infection-rate states. Masks and glasses, on an airline with spaced seating and, at the least, a really good website about their COVID management practices if not actual implementation of them.
And now Texas and Arizona are going full steam ahead filling the ICUs while still not shutting anything down.
Hopefully PA & CO can keep their act together for another week or I'm gonna be looking for a different car to buy :-/ At least the plane ticket is refundable. PA where I am just technically reopened today and we're endlessly debating what is OK to do. Wife and kid will resume in-person karate classes, in small distanced classes with masks on, as their only indoor activity for the forseeable future. I'm likely taking the flight mentioned above, but definitely not going to the regular gym anytime soon, nor wearing a mask any less often when out and about.
Would be nice to let the kid run around with random other kids at playgrounds again, how guilty should i feel about that?
I made a haircut appointment. Masks on each of us, one person in the shop at a time (single proprieter barber shop). That kind of thing seems like a reasonable 'new normal'.
Yeesh. I'm in the same boat. Car is in Denver.
hmmm...
“We thought this was only a respiratory virus. Turns out, it goes after the pancreas. It goes after the heart. It goes after the liver, the brain, the kidney and other organs. We didn’t appreciate that in the beginning,” said Dr. Eric Topol, a cardiologist and director of the Scripps Research Translational Institute in La Jolla, California.
Wondering over here if the "asymptomatic carriers" are still going to have major health issues. I'd think it takes a lot longer for pancreas or liver damage to become apparent, vs. lung damage.
poopshovel again said:RedGT said:I've got myself convinced it's not stupid to do a fly-and-drive car purchase, from one low-case-count state to another, driving home through other low-infection-rate states. Masks and glasses, on an airline with spaced seating and, at the least, a really good website about their COVID management practices if not actual implementation of them.
And now Texas and Arizona are going full steam ahead filling the ICUs while still not shutting anything down.
Hopefully PA & CO can keep their act together for another week or I'm gonna be looking for a different car to buy :-/ At least the plane ticket is refundable. PA where I am just technically reopened today and we're endlessly debating what is OK to do. Wife and kid will resume in-person karate classes, in small distanced classes with masks on, as their only indoor activity for the forseeable future. I'm likely taking the flight mentioned above, but definitely not going to the regular gym anytime soon, nor wearing a mask any less often when out and about.
Would be nice to let the kid run around with random other kids at playgrounds again, how guilty should i feel about that?
I made a haircut appointment. Masks on each of us, one person in the shop at a time (single proprieter barber shop). That kind of thing seems like a reasonable 'new normal'.
Yeesh. I'm in the same boat. Car is in Denver.
I'm heading to Seattle to help a GRMer drive some of his vehicles to Michigan tomorrow. With a multi-hour layover in the Twin Cities. Everything was planned out well before the new cases started exploding in the past week.
One vehicle is a diesel pusher MH, and we have masks and will be able to limit contact for the most part, so I am not going to panic.
Cooter said:I'm heading to Seattle to help a GRMer drive some of his vehicles to Michigan tomorrow. With a multi-hour layover in the Twin Cities. Everything was planned out well before the new cases started exploding in the past week.
One vehicle is a diesel pusher MH, and we have masks and will be able to limit contact for the most part, so I am not going to panic.
I would just be concerned at the gas stations , but other than that have a great ride andpost some pictures 
Gas stations are pretty easy. Credit card swipe, use the back of your knuckle on your left hand on the keypad, and use a paper towel on the pump handle. Hand sanitizer afterwards, and there is a sink and soap in the motorhome.
Yeah, gas stations and the driving portion of the trip concern me the least. Flying is the concern but frankly i haven't seen outbreaks reported surrounding that industry. An indoor restaurant meal in a state without masks carries more risk, or thats what i am telling myself anyway.
I got my anti-body test back. Negative, very low count (.02, 1.4 is the line). It's the new Abbot test, so false negatives are VERY unlikely. So I guess I just got a strong flu in January (I heard there was a pretty second wave going around).
I also got VERY passive-aggressively mask shammed yesterday. I was in a parking lot of a park, with no one near, waiting for others to get out of the car (no need to have a mask, we weren't going near anyone, I did have one on me though). An old couple approaches me, with masks on. I give them a slight smile and turn away from them as they walk within 6 feet of me(why?!). As they pass, the lady appears to activate something on her phone, which is a sound bite that (rather loudly) talks about how masks are the best defense of particles spreading etc!
They were going the car parked next to ours, but had NO reason to pass so close to me. And I TURNED AWAY!
This is the sort of BS that does no good! There is no reason to wear a mask when you aren't around others (you should have one with you generally), and certainly no reason to purposely pass close to someone who isn't near anyone and who is trying to avoid you and then try to shame them when you do!!
RedGT said:Yeah, gas stations and the driving portion of the trip concern me the least. Flying is the concern but frankly i haven't seen outbreaks reported surrounding that industry. An indoor restaurant meal in a state without masks carries more risk, or thats what i am telling myself anyway.
My middle brother is a pilot for Delta and I ride side by sides with an American Airlines pilot. Neither have concerns nor have seen many cases. The ones around the airport were early and primarily with the TSA agents. I am sending my kids on the 7th to MN from PHX and following up myself on the 15th with no concern.
alfadriver (Forum Supporter) said:SVreX (Forum Supporter) said:ProDarwin said:SVreX (Forum Supporter) said:I'd also like to see the stats normalized for age, risk category, and population density.
If they were, I am confident most of us would find much less to be fearful of.
I think lots of people don't fear it. What they fear is potentially transmitting it to someone that is high risk.
Yep. That's still fear.
You have a very interesting definition of fear, Paul.
For sure, not one I agree on. Even on a professional leve, since my job directly impacts human health on a very low limit relative to 50 years ago in the same aspect. And more inteesting that you regularly post about building safety- structural, electrical, pumbing, etc- which suggests that much of the work you have done professionally is about protecting other's safety.
Hang on...
I have no idea why several of you have felt the need to jump on me about this.
I did not define fear. I simply recognized that ProDarwin said, "What they fear is potentially transmitting it to someone of high risk". Correct. There is a fear. I fear that too. It is a compassionate fear, and perhaps justified. ProDarwin said people are afraid, and I agreed with him. That is all.
As an essential worker who has continued traveling through several states and trying to live in the complete chaos of mis-information in the real world, you're damned right I was afraid of bringing this home to my 94 year old father who lived in my house with me. Suggesting I care less is thoroughly insulting.
I suggested we could find LESS to be fearful of. Managing fear is a very reasonable and important concept that a lot of you seem to be overlooking. We need to work at it. Balance.
I never said don't be compassionate. I never said don't care.
PROPAGATING fear is unhealthy. I am watching my mother (and others in her care facility) wither away because they can't reign in the fear, and don't know how to balance the information coming in. Some of the info is complete BS. Frankly, fear mongering is not compassion. It's killing people. And fear mongering is not better just because it is posted on a car website.
I am personally responsible for handling COVID response and safety for hundreds of people. NO ONE has gotten sick under my watch.
If some of you feel better using me as your whipping boy, have at it. Glad I can help make you feel better about yourselves. Seems thoroughly unproductive to me.
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