I don't get it - what's so good about 911s?

wannabewrench wrote: Tricky to drive, expensive to maintain, slow to 60...I haven't heard anything positive yet except, "It was my dream car growing up". Jennifer Aniston was my dream girl growing up but I'm liking that girl from Transformers now. Point is, the affordable 911s are used up like Aniston. Megan Fox is still relatively unmolested.

I'm not a big fan, but you have to compare these cars versus what was available when they were made. Remember the GRM comparison between a Honda minivan and an E-type (The Honda won)? In the black hole that was the 70s, a 911 SC or 930 Turbo could pretty well take all comers.

That said, the fact that they cling to rear engines at thys point seems an anachronism. I'd take a Cayman S in a heartbeat over a compatively priced 911 derivative.

The 911 is about immersion. Nothing else sounds like it, drives like it or even smells like it.

It is about steering with your feet... about managing your revs and not hurrying thru the gears. It isn't like other cars and you have to learn to drive it differently but when you "get it" it is very strong stuff. I always feel like I earned a lap in the 911... it rewards rightness and suffers no fools.

The easy to spin myth is just that... it is propagated by noobs who treat it like a FWD or regular front engine RWD car and they wait until its too late to catch because they have slow, lazy reflexes. Poll only people who learned to drive a swing axle beetle - they think its the easiest car in the world to drive.

ClemSparks wrote: 911s have back seats, right? I was never a fan, but as I approach middle age...I think I could appreciate one. Miata's lack of a middle seat (and me being a single father of two) makes it not so practical these days.

Yes, most of them do have back seats (some RS versions etc don't and in most cases you'll have to remove them if you want to fit a roll cage). Assuming that I count as an adult, I've had three adults in mine including myself. The main problem with the rear seat is headroom but as I have a Targa that is less of an issue...

ClemSparks wrote: However, if I was going to go out and spend $10-20K on a car right now (I'm not...not anytime soon), I'd get a 6 speed GTO.

Thing is, that GTO probably isn't going to be worth the money you paid for it in ten years time, but there's a good chance that the 911 will be.

ClemSparks wrote: Anyway...there's some thing about the style, the reputation, and (I assume) relative simplicity of the air cooled 911 that is growing on me these days.

I must admit that the simplicity factor does have a lot of appeal to me, too. Some things aren't that simple (whoever designed the heating system on the 3.2s must've been smoking some strong stuff) and the engine is somewhat more complicated than your average V6 or flat six but at the end of the day it's just simple engineering.

I have driven a few including a '69 targa which did to me exactly what everybody complains about: spin. No, I didn't know how to drive one. Everyone claims that's been corrected. I drove a '76 with the magnesium case motor, I didn't get to drive it hard so I can't say that 7 years development fixed the spin. I then drove a 911 Turbo (don't recall the year, but it had a 4 speed) and other than the feeling on boost I was underwhelmed. It didn't spin, though. Honestly, I liked my 914 better than all the 911's even though it was much slower. The 911 and 914 both shared one thing I have never liked: the bottom hinged pedals. It just feels wrong to me and doesn't inspire confidence.

I drove a 2000 Carrera 4. the power to the front wheels made catching spins easy. I drove the piss out of it for exactly 52.46 seconds. then I gave it back to the owner when the fun run at the autcross was over.

TJ wrote:

93celicaGT2 wrote: I am SO doing that to my rear bumper!!!!

What, trying to light it on fire?

Hahaha.... done that before....

I meant the cuts, though. I have a "flap" broken in my rear bumper that looks like someone hit it with a bumper hitch. This would be a perfect fix without having to lose anything but an hour of my time.

It's not that early 911s are that bad. It's just that some of them are selling for stupid money now. The same kind of money that could get you much more performance in a newer Porsche or a new Corvette.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1973-Porsche-911-S-Targa-2k-hour-resto-A-C-Sport-Seats_W0QQitemZ330336364504QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUS_Cars_Trucks?hash=item4ce994e7d8&_trksid=p4506.c0.m245&_trkparms=65%3A-1%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1308

I should have bought the '69 911S I was offered for $6,000 many years ago.

Funny we are talking about posters from our youth.

Jalopnik's "Poster's from our Youth" thread

A good one is reliable, fast, fun, looks good, sounds great, and not any more expensive to maintain than any other car, really. It does take some getting used to driving, but once you adjust your driving style, it's a great car. One of the driving advantages, is that you can accelerate out of corners sooner, because you transfer all the weight over the rear wheels - once that bugger hunkers down, you can really rocket out of the corners. The 911 was the reason they invented the mantra "in slow, out fast".

If you let of the gas mid-corner, you can spin it, sure. But that is because of simple physics - let off the throttle, the weight transfers off the rear wheels and the bugger will swing like a pendulum. Keep your foot in it, or modulate the pedal like you should (don't get snappy with on/off movements) and you'll be rewarded. It's not worse or better than any other car, just different - that is probably what throws people off, and makes people assume that it is somehow lesser of a car, or a worse handling car. In truth, it's just not for the inexperienced. Take your time to learn to drive it, and you will learn to love it and appreciate the unique characteristics.

From a reliability standpoint, the 3.0 litre and up motors are more reliable than the 2.7 litres with the magnesium case, but as long as those receive the perscribed updates, they can be good cars as well. SCs are often known to go over 200K miles with proper care and maintenance before a rebuild. Picking one up with 150K miles shouldn't scare anyone away, as long as you check to see that the reliability upgrades have been made. Remember that some of these cars are 30+ years old, so they could need some work. Show me a first gen rx-7 or any 150K mile miata that won't need several hundred dollars of work to get it up to snuff for autox, etc. if it hasn't served that duty in a previous life. (Note: I have nothing against Mazda, I'm just using them as references, because I've owned both.)

Sorry - I am a bit biased.

I've owned three 911s ('67, '84, '99) and driven several more.

The one I had the hardest time deciding to sell was my '84. It wasn't super fast, but it was fast enough. The steering was telepathic. The shifter sucked. It was work to drive it fast, but get it right, and it was a blast!

The '67 felt like my 1972 Beetle to me. Loved the looks, but couldn't understand why it was such a big deal. I traded it for my '84..

The '99 drove amazingly well and eventually led to my purchasing a Boxster. Same excellent steering, same great pedal location, no real propensity to swap ends.

However, the newer 996s lost that special, intangible something that made the aircooled 911 more than just a transportation module - and therein lies the appeal. There are faster, more comfortable and better handling cars out there - and for less money - but there is something about the feel of a 911, how it doesn't spoon-feed you the experience or cover your mistakes. You have to drive it.

I will agree, however, that it really does take $20K to get a good 911, and anything before the 993 (1995-1998) is going to be a PITA to use as a daily driver.

easy. they were (and remain) gorgeous, gorgeous cars.

As a kid of the 80's, the glorified beettle was one of my dream cars along with the Countach and the 308. Make mine a Targa SC or Carrera please.

Anyone have a ratty old 911 that runs that they want to trade for a shiny Boxster with cold A/C?

M030 wrote: Anyone have a ratty old 911 that runs that they want to trade for a shiny Boxster with cold A/C?

Maybe

M030 wrote: The '67 felt like my 1972 Beetle to me. Loved the looks, but couldn't understand why it was such a big deal. I traded it for my '84..

What's wrong with a 1972 Beetle, or for that matter, any year Karmann Ghia?

pinchvalve wrote: Don't autocross well? All I know is that there is an orange 911 running Vintage class here in the 'Burgh that will wipe that notion away right quick.

I autocross with the Oregon Region PCA. If my ham-fists in my 26-year old 1/4 million mile rotary can whoop them, then they don't autocross well. A stock 1st Gen RX-7 on Azenis should not be able to beat a 911 on Hoosier A6's on any course, yet that's whats happening. I refuse to believe that my driving is the difference.

Rear engined Porsches have been winning races for as long as they have been around, I think the Flying Lizards are leading the ALMS GT2 points right now. If the handling of these cars was as bad as some seem to think this would not be the case. They are different but very effective.

With that being said I have liked them for as long as I can remember, count me inthe group that had a 911 Turbo poster, so I am not that objective.

Not really to do with wanting one or not, but if anyone needs the rear half of the body from a 70s ones, i saw a broken in half (almost at least) stripped shell in the junkuard yesterday. The back half was straight though.

M030 wrote: I will agree, however, that it really does take $20K to get a good 911, and anything before the 993 (1995-1998) is going to be a PITA to use as a daily driver.

I use my '90 as a daily... and its fine. Its the cars that came before the 964 that were a little harsh. I'd still drive a noisy 80s C2 every day though.

I'll sell it to anyone looking for a reliable 911 for $20k... need money to finish the race car... pics are in my profile.

I've never driven one, so I won't talk about the driving experience.

But by all that's holy, Porsches sound like boiled ass. I've never heard one and thought it sounded anywhere close to nice or pleasant. I wouldn't own one due to the sound alone.

Personally, as a kid growing up in the 80's? I hated them. I hated Lambos. I hated Ferraris.

I think I was damaged.

I think the first car I Liked was my parents '76 Celica GT Liftback. First dream car I think was the XJ220 (still one of the most gorgeous cars ever built I believe).

The only Ferrari I've ever actually loved the looks of really, is the 550 Maranello (575 has gimped headlights. wth?!)

And I hated Lamborghini entirely until I first saw a picture of the Miura.

And on topic? Porsche? I never liked the looks of the 911 series. Not then, not even now. I don't dislike the current styling nearly as much as the older models, I'd go so far as to say it's decent. But just not my cup of tea.

It's funny to find this thread. Just this morning I noticed what looked like a red 80's Targa with a whale-tale parked for sale outside a low-end Japanese restaraunt. I drove past it again this afternoon, and even had a minute or 2 to spare, and came ->this<- close to stopping.

Then I realized all the points made in this thread about cost of entry vs. cost of maintenance, driving charactaristics, etc. and decided I'll just be happy with my Miata, for now anyway.

Congrats, you're a better driver than the guy in the Porsche. I get asked not to return to PCA events in my (insert whatever HStock car I'm driving). Trust me.....a well set-up 911 is a hoot to drive, and can be nationally competitive in certain classes.

Although, if I ever own one again, I'm not going to worry about the engine going poof—as then it'll give me a chance to learn how to rebuild it.

Per

P71 wrote: I autocross with the Oregon Region PCA. If my ham-fists in my 26-year old 1/4 million mile rotary can whoop them, then they don't autocross well. A stock 1st Gen RX-7 on Azenis should not be able to beat a 911 on Hoosier A6's on any course, yet that's whats happening. I refuse to believe that my driving is the difference.

Per Schroeder wrote: Although, if I ever own one again, I'm not going to worry about the engine going poof—as then it'll give me a chance to learn how to rebuild it. Per

I don't think it would be all that hard to rebuild one. It would just be hard to write the check for all the parts.

I pick up my 911 tonight. I'll post some pictures from the return trip.